All-Star Teams With Illegal Elements Winning A Worlds Bid?

[NJ Coach]

Earlier this season, one of my teams had an illegal element. It was a stupid fluff transition, but regardless, it was illegal. Now, I know my rules. However, there was a clarification in the rules that made my transition illegal. I missed it. First competition, nothing called, said or anything. Second competition, no deduction, but the company told us to look into it, because they weren't sure it was legal. I looked into it, and with some help from Andre (who pointed out the missed clarification) we took it out.

Accidents happen. Even coaches who know the rules make mistakes or miss things. Judges miss things or make mistakes. All you can do is fix it and move on.

 

[catben2]

Not only does this effect the paid bid recipients but the at large as well. If the highest scoring team would not have been an international team then that only left 2 bids for international teams rather than 3 which allowed for the next reg level 5 team to receive a bid. In other words, because of WSF's mistake a team got denied their money and a team got denied a bid.

 

[hiyoe6]

Bay State's Small Senior Limited Coed team on Day 1 at SpiritFest in CT should have received two legalities for their pyramid. I'm surprised they walked away with the placement they did and with a World's bid. So other teams are receiving bids with obvious legalities.

Bay State's pyramid on Day 1 (haven't seen a video of Day 2) included 2 illegal elements. The front flips over the legs must have three catchers that are not doing choreography when the transition is initiated. Bay State's flips were only caught by two catchers, one of which was a tosser of the other side (can only see front group in video). Did the safety judges catch these?

 

[yojaehs]

Its not just "write a check" there is a process IF WSF chooses to correct THEIR mistake, BUT they don't have to, just the right thing to do.

 

[KB_Legend]

it is as easy as write a check, Midwest already has an at large bid so if WSF wanted to they could make a donation to the gym which could be used to cover the costs of worlds, teams get sponsorships all the time

 

[Rudags]

Right now, Les has declared this GT stunt everyone is referring to legal... So until that changes...

 

[ptcheerboi]

Sometimes it's hard to figure out what is legal and illegal just by reading the rules because they don't cover everything.

Actually this brings up a question with me, I'll create the scenario to make it less confusing.
in level 5: Say a girl starts in a half, she braces both hands on top of another girl's stomach (who is in a backbend in a stunt), and then does a front flip where she is caught by another group. What is the rule on the amount of people that need to catch that flyer?

I ask this because we performed the skill in a pyramid in 2009, and on one side, there were 3 catchers and on the other side there were 2, and we were told it was illegal to catch with 2 catchers and that we needed to add a 3rd catcher to the other side. Then, I was to another gym who was performing a similar skill, except it was a girl in a smush (same height) with contact with 2 hands where the flyer flipped over and they had 2 catchers. I made a comment on the legality of the catch and they said they performed it at every competition the previous year (pretty much the same competitions we went to), and there was never a comment made.

What is the real rule on catchers?

When any flyer is doing an inversion or any other LDR that causes her to go two and a half high, she must have 3 catchers.

 

[CheerFanatic]

Right now, Les has declared this GT stunt everyone is referring to legal... So until that changes...

Also - they would have been given a warning on day one anyway - results would have most likely stayed the same. This is so hard for me Gt is my team and I dearly love them and also I still consider Midwest my first allstar "Home" . I really hate the way this whole thing has blown up.

 

[Jmorries]

Also - they would have been given a warning on day one anyway - results would have most likely stayed the same. This is so hard for me Gt is my team and I dearly love them and also I still consider Midwest my first allstar "Home" . I really hate the way this whole thing has blown up.

We had an illegal stunt all year and competed it at NCA Dallas and it didnt get noticed until UCA Nationals in finals warm up so a warning on day 1 doesn't always happen. It should though! It would help ckear things a bit.

 

[wcdad]

I have noticed a lot of questions lately about whether or not a stunt or tumbling sequence is legal. Shouldn't the coahes be memorizing the rules for their level as soon as they know what level they are coaching? It worries me when kids are posting "my coach is having us do x,y,z..is it legal?" And it isn't...

They should t least be sending in videos to see if there is any part of the routine that is illegal.

 

[wcdad]

So what do we think about the following facts:

Fact #1. GT IOC5's partner stunt was illegal at WSF
Fact #2. GT was not called for an illegal stunt by the judges at WSF
Fact #3. GT IOC5 received a paid bid to worlds from WSF
Fact #4. If GT would have been called for the legality, then Midwest large limited would have most likely received the paid bid from WSF.
Question #1. Should WSF correct their mistake and award Midwest with a paid bid?
Question #2. WILL WSF correct their mistake and award Midwest with a paid bid?
Question #3. Do you even care because this competition was a month ago and a month in cheerleading is an eternity?

I personally do not fault GT. I still believe that they should maintain their paid bid and an additional paid bid should be awarded to Midwest.

Go to the other thread, Andre has already answered these questions for you.

 

[idrive]

This happens. We were at an event where a couple of teams had illegal pyramids and were awarded bids. When our coaches tried to question the judges they were not made available. To further their stance both coaches do some judging and one is actually a legallity judge and has trained others in this area as well. My point is these World Bid judges need to make themselves available to answer questions as long as its done in a respectful manner. Its really not fair to these particular teams if they go to Worlds and use the same routine only to discover their pyramids were and still are illegal. To me thats the biggest dissapointment and could cause a larger arguement that could have been prevented.

 

[Deleted member 15]

This happens. We were at an event where a couple of teams had illegal pyramids and were awarded bids. When our coaches tried to question the judges they were not made available. To further their stance both coaches do some judging and one is actually a legallity judge and has trained others in this area as well. My point is these World Bid judges need to make themselves available to answer questions as long as its done in a respectful manner. Its really not fair to these particular teams if they go to Worlds and use the same routine only to discover their pyramids were and still are illegal. To me thats the biggest dissapointment and could cause a larger arguement that could have been prevented.

In my experience the judges availability to talk to coaches is up to the event producer and the odds of the coach remaining respectful is about 50/50. I'm 6'1" and over 200 lbs and have been threatened by coaches, male and female, of all sizes for informing them something in the routine was illegal.

 

[CCCBeBad]

Andre, stop acting like you are big!! You know some crazy cheer mom could lay you out if her daughter didnt win!! hahahha

 

[idrive]

In my experience the judges availability to talk to coaches is up to the event producer and the odds of the coach remaining respectful is about 50/50. I'm 6'1" and over 200 lbs and have been threatened by coaches, male and female, of all sizes for informing them something in the routine was illegal.

That's why I threw out the word "respectful". If they can't act like an adult then they forfeit their right to any discussion. Good job on telling them. Maybe later they'll realize they owe you a "Thank You".