The Perfect Competition/Event

[Mclovin]

Jambrands has a rubric that gives you a "quantity" score and it's based on the number of skills being performed in each category. Like if you have a team of 20 kids, you are expected to have 18-20 kids throwing doubles (or somethingl ike that) to max out your "quantity" score. You have to have 6 stunts to max out on your quantity stunt score, etc. Is this what you were asking??

No that's not what I'm asking... Someone said that people tumbling multiple times should NOT count towards your ratio (which is fine) but repeat tumblers can count towards your "overall score" and I'm not quite sure what that means

Oh! lol The way I understood that was that they felt that repeat tumblers should count towards your difficulty or overall impression score, but just not towards the quantity score that jambrands offers.

 

[Mclovin]

I think it would be really cool- Especially on events when there is only one panel and the time drags.

Set it up like American Idol-
Still have your (Normal scoring judges)
But also have a panel of 3 people that will speak the TRUTH-
As we are all waiting for the judges to score- then each verbal critique judge can make their comments over the microphone.
The verbal critique wouldn't necessarily count as your score-
But would make for an interesting cheerleading competition and could be quite funny-
I am sure of course many would be quite offended if you have some Simons on the microphone though!

America's Best did this a couple years ago with their individual competition. After each kid/group performed, one of the judges critiqued them right there on the spot. They had a really "nice" judge critiquing the youth age and below and a kinda tough judge critiquing the older kids. I thought it was really neat actually. I can't imagine this happening with teams though. That would take FOREVER!!!

 

[Deleted member 15]

Judges' training has been mentioned several times on different threads. What would additional judges training consist of?

 

[Mclovin]

Judges' training has been mentioned several times on different threads. What would additional judges training consist of?

They just need to be trained to judge a team based on the scoresheet provided. I know at two competitions that we have attended there has been a judge on the panel that coached my daughter previously and he couldn't even put together a good cheer routine as a coach. How the heck is he supposed to know how to judge one?? And this guy sat on the panel that judged the worlds bid divisions. I had many many conversations with him while working with him and he wouldn't know good transitions from bad ones, clean lines from sloppy ones. It's scary actually. I think the judges need to be trained in EXACTLY what great execution is from sloppy, exactly what skill outscores another, exactly what a winning routine should look like. This all seems like it should be obvious, but trust me, it's not.

 

[Deleted member 15]

How do you go about doing this?

You have a weekend with all the judges in the world. What are you teaching us and how are you doing it?

 

[Mclovin]

Well, if it were me, I would have videos, LOTS of videos of what is and isn't what we are looking for out of a cheer routine. I would have them review these videos and do a mock judging of them. Not in a room full of all the judges where they can essentially "cheat" off each other. I have been to several "certification" meetings (not for all star cheer) where you sit through a day long lecture then take a test at the end where they basically GIVE you the answers. This is not what I'm talking about. And this certification process should be done very often. I believe the only way they are going to become "accurate" at this is to break down good routines, mediocre routines and bad routines section by section and learn exactly what makes them that way.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Will you pick you favorite part of a score sheet and link to videos of good and bad?

 

[Mclovin]

Will you pick you favorite part of a score sheet and link to videos of good and bad?

No, you take every single section of the scoresheet and do it, over multiple weekends if necessary. Cheer has approximately a 6 month off season. There should be ample time to properly train plenty of judges.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

I know next to nothing about judging/scoring so typically I just try to read and learn however now you two have me curious.

Is it fair to say that no matter what event your team goes to, determining whether a skill is good or bad is the same? It's just the weighting and deductions that are different? I'm sure I am over simplfying it but am curious anyway!

 

[Deleted member 15]

Will you pick you favorite part of a score sheet and link to videos of good and bad?

No, you take every single section of the scoresheet and do it, over multiple weekends if necessary. Cheer has approximately a 6 month off season. There should be ample time to properly train plenty of judges.

I'm asking you to start the process by picking your personally favorite sections and finding good and bad video examples.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I know next to nothing about judging/scoring so typically I just try to read and learn however now you two have me curious.

Is it fair to say that no matter what event your team goes to, determining whether a skill is good or bad is the same? It's just the weighting and deductions that are different? I'm sure I am over simplfying it but am curious anyway!

It's more about determining which is better/worse than good/bad. Were the stunts thrown in the first routine better than the second routine? Where should their stunts rank in a division of 15? Were they harder, but executed worse? How much harder were they? How much worse was the execution? Were they executed well individual, but out of sync as a team. One team had a bobble, does that make them fall behind the other team? How about a fall?

Team A does a fake full up opposite stretch, tick tock stretch (high to high). Team B does real full up opposite libs, tick tock stretch (high to high), Team C does full up 2 man opposite lib, low to high tick tock stretch, with extra people tumbling. Same team size, number of stunts, execution, etc.

1. Which should score highest, second, and last in stunt?
2. If the team you chose in question 1 bobbled would it change your answer? How about if they fell?

These are more like the questions judges are asked to answer, with assistance from the scoring system.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Will you pick you favorite part of a score sheet and link to videos of good and bad?

No, you take every single section of the scoresheet and do it, over multiple weekends if necessary. Cheer has approximately a 6 month off season. There should be ample time to properly train plenty of judges.

I'm asking you to start the process by picking your personally favorite sections and finding good and bad video examples.

What kind of English was I using when I typed this response?

 

[Mclovin]

lol Andre! I'll excuse your spelling since you are making for some VERY excellent conversation!!

Take the top 10 teams from Worlds in Small Senior. That seemed to be a very big debate about why Rays won and why CEA placed 2nd, etc. Or take the top 10 from Large Limited, another very close division. Your post about which stunt would outscore the other is a very good post. My "untrained" self would say all would score equally if they were all executed equally. But I guarantee you that there would be separations in score on other sections of the scoresheet. EVERY section needs to be broken down. Stunts and tumbling are two areas where teams can be very close together, but overall execution and cleanliness and transitions can separate those teams.

 

[ACEDAD]

Will you pick you favorite part of a score sheet and link to videos of good and bad?

No, you take every single section of the scoresheet and do it, over multiple weekends if necessary. Cheer has approximately a 6 month off season. There should be ample time to properly train plenty of judges.

I don't think time is necessarily the issue. But during this time frame, how are the judges earning a living or otherwise being compensated?

 

[Mclovin]

Will you pick you favorite part of a score sheet and link to videos of good and bad?

No, you take every single section of the scoresheet and do it, over multiple weekends if necessary. Cheer has approximately a 6 month off season. There should be ample time to properly train plenty of judges.

I don't think time is necessarily the issue. But during this time frame, how are the judges earning a living or otherwise being compensated?

It's on the weekends. I would imagine since they are judging on the weekends, they are not earning their living on the weekends (unless it's by judging! lol) Anyway, what I believe is necessary is the USASF putting some money into their judging system. If, I, as a parent have to pay higher entry fees into comps or a higher registration fee to the USASF and that extra money assures me that my child's team will be fairly and accurately judged, I am all for it. Heck, I just spent $2,500.00 for Jamfest Indy. I think I can handle a couple hundred more if necessary.