All-Star The Thread To Stop The Hijacking Of The Cea Thread

[redsmom]

*I cheered for CEA for 7 years
In regards to this whole topic, they do not 'share' athletes for worlds teams. They have worlds tryouts for certain teams (if not all worlds teams). If you're already on the team, then duh, you're going to tryout and be on the team. There's some people that either can't afford worlds, or can't go, or just haven't maintained their skills, and spots open;or the team wasn't full to begin with so they add on. If you're at a gym such as Salem, and you have level 5 skills, and want the opportunity to go to worlds, you can go tryout. If there's an athlete at more than one gym, it's usually because they're from one of the non-level-5 gyms and they decide to tryout. I had several friends who tried out for international all girl and made it just for worlds.

They did "share" athletes for worlds teams this year, med coed has 10 athletes that crossover from se and coed elite (as stated by Courtney in another thread).

If an athlete hasn't "maintained the skills" sounds to me like "duh" maybe you won't be on the team :confused:

If the team wasn't full to start with you can't fill those spots unless you are going to compete for a new bid, you can only compete with the number of athletes that were on the floor when the bid was awarded.

I don't disagree that there are good reasons to be able to make changes and hence the existence of substitutes and alternates for worlds.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

*I cheered for CEA for 7 years
In regards to this whole topic, they do not 'share' athletes for worlds teams. They have worlds tryouts for certain teams (if not all worlds teams). If you're already on the team, then duh, you're going to tryout and be on the team. There's some people that either can't afford worlds, or can't go, or just haven't maintained their skills, and spots open;or the team wasn't full to begin with so they add on. If you're at a gym such as Salem, and you have level 5 skills, and want the opportunity to go to worlds, you can go tryout. If there's an athlete at more than one gym, it's usually because they're from one of the non-level-5 gyms and they decide to tryout. I had several friends who tried out for international all girl and made it just for worlds.

If I'm good enough for the team to help win the bid, then why am I not good enough for the team when they go to world's? And I think it was stated that World's was just another event at the end of the season. So why would you need a roster change, if this is the mentality.

 

[CoachTamara]

I'm a small small gym fighting AGAINST crossovers. Just wanted to state my position in this battle. It has too many negative consequences than positive.

Yes!
I feel like I have said this about 5 times now in different threads, but I am the small gym you keep telling me needs crossovers, and I don't. We have two crossovers in our entire gym. The use of crossovers by large gyms is hurting my kids a thousand times more than I need crossovers to make my teams complete. For the third time this season, my youth 1 will compete against a team with at least 75% crossing over to a higher level team, some even coming from a senior 4 team. Really? As long as they can, they will. At the very minimum, set some boundaries. If people are worried about injuries, then fine, limit it to 3 crossovers on a team. There is a cushion for you to play with.
I feel like I keep mentioning this, but I still have not been convinced crossovers are needed at all.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

Please tell me if I'm crazy, but doesn't make sense for each gym to only be able to have 1 team in each category? I mean shouldn't each gym get to take one coed 5 and one AG 5 and compete? Maybe the same for Level 6.

I mean how can you be the "best in the world" if you aren't even the "best in the gym." Again call me crazy, people have called me worse.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Please tell me if I'm crazy, but doesn't make sense for each gym to only be able to have 1 team in each category? I mean shouldn't each gym get to take one coed 5 and one AG 5 and compete? Maybe the same for Level 6.

I mean how can you be the "best in the world" if you aren't even the "best in the gym." Again call me crazy, people have called me worse.

The problem is, for gyms like F5, CEA, Cali, etc. HOW do you say who's the better team? Is Smoed better than LrgCoed at Cali? Are Sharks better than SE? Between Weather Girls and Eclipse, who would win? Should we force mega gyms to turn away business so that they only have one team per level, regardless of size?

If teams weren't stacked before, they DEFINITELY would be then..

 

[BlueCat]

Please tell me if I'm crazy, but doesn't make sense for each gym to only be able to have 1 team in each category? I mean shouldn't each gym get to take one coed 5 and one AG 5 and compete? Maybe the same for Level 6.

I mean how can you be the "best in the world" if you aren't even the "best in the gym." Again call me crazy, people have called me worse.

You're crazy. ;)

 

[ACEDAD]

Please tell me if I'm crazy, but doesn't make sense for each gym to only be able to have 1 team in each category? I mean shouldn't each gym get to take one coed 5 and one AG 5 and compete? Maybe the same for Level 6.

I mean how can you be the "best in the world" if you aren't even the "best in the gym." Again call me crazy, people have called me worse.

ACE has so many talented athletes we don't even limit it to one team per division.

 

[DJ]

Fame also has two small coed 5s with Worlds bids. (guessing they'll compete against each other)

 

[yojaehs]

I'm a small small gym fighting AGAINST crossovers. Just wanted to state my position in this battle. It has too many negative consequences than positive.

Again, I'm 100% AGAINST crossovers, however if it's withing the current guidelines then the gym isn't doing anything wrong. If you have issue with the rule then go after the rule makers.

 

[ascheerfan]

^ I believe that is exactly what is trying to be accomplished. Sometimes in order for change to occur, you have to be willing to have those "uncomfortable" conversations. I for one have the upmost respect for the CEA organization and admire the accomplishments of the program. And although they have taken more than their share (quite graceful I might add) of being " called out", they are most definitely not the only ones and I do appreciate their handeling of the "hot seat" so to speak as I feel some really great & for the most part civil conversation is occurring due to it along with fueling the desire and innovation to develop solutions to the issues! I applaud and am very grateful for all the effort from everyone with whom are trying to make the changes, many of us agree, need to be made.

At BATC this weekend, As I watched the level 5 athletes run from their completed awards to make it in time to take the mat for their level 3 awards, ( & NO this is NOT a CEA reference) my only source of calm & sanity was to know that the "buzz" was still quite active comming off of NCA, and that it seems we have not given up on trying to make the changes to the sport we all love in order for it to succeed. Rant over

 

[StarshipTrooper]

StarshipTrooper

What do you feel defines a gym since you have been in this so long??

You once posted this to me..

So I opened the first CEA satellite gym in our small town about 45 miles from Kernersville in 2001. It kept about 75 to 100 kids participating at the lower levels, we did have a youth and junior level 4 team, but of those 75 kids, about 15 to the "cheer bug" and joined the higher level teams in Kernersville to compete more on a national level. Interestingly, the team that first won NCA in 2005, Junior Large All Girls had about 10 of these kids that were key members of that team the actually "found the Grail" and 5 of them were flyers. This from a town of 7 thousand.

When you owned or still may own, not really sure, did you have different tax id numbers and what is your feeling on this since it looks like franchise is here to stay. How far is to far to take this?? Say Cheer Express Montana has a awesome flyer, but Cheer Express NC needs her for Worlds team, mamma is just excited her daughter was asked, sends her to Worlds with the team??? SAME GYM?? I feel this needs to be established to grow as a sport. We have a lot holding us back!

Mo, a gym is the coach and staff. The athletes pay for their services. The building and equipment are ancillary and unimportant. The athletes from Mount Airy gravitated to the Kernersville location as their skills grew and the need for higher level teams that we could not offer increased. And I think you have to look at it from both sides. There is no way Cheer Extreme could have ever competed with single location gyms in large urban centers due to population base and economic opportunities for parents in one location. Not even now with a known brand. She did this to be able to compete on the national level. It was always my impression that to be successful on a local and regional level, she felt she had to compete against and beat the best. Again, if you want to limit crossovers, register the athletes and limit them however the industry feels necessary. But I see no reason to limit the business model as the staff IS THE GYM. That said, I see how that effects smaller local gyms that may lose athletes to a concept like she has, it did our small gym, but I've been in business now for 25 years and if you do not evolve and compete you do not grow at a minimum but more likely you die. I do not think you stiffle innovation and competitive edge in any industry if possible. It is no co-incidence that successful high level teams are congregated around certain staffs. It never feels good to be squeezed by a bigger competitor, I fight that fight all the time in MY real world. Now, I do understand how large gyms with established brands and access to significant numbers of athletes WOULD WANT to limit and regulate these types of situations. Don't you? But if you change crossover rules you will not see a change in her success. Again, it is more a function of parental request at CEA than the staff for kids to crossover. She may consolidate a team or 2 here and there, one may go large and one medium or small in the same division depending on who shows up at tryouts, but the results will be near the same. However, to both their credit and discredit the people running this industry have shyed away from intense regulation for a reason. With this you get the increasing effect of politics and an unnaturual distortion of the market and that will likely give you a situation that is more difficult. When one is at the top of the mountain, the tendancy is to want a set of rules and a political environment that locks you in right there.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

My understanding with the Greenville gym is that it is a franchise location. Different owners, different business practices, tuition amounts, etc. I am guessing they have their own Tax ID since it is different owners who pooled their money to open the location. However, I do know of at least 1 athlete that was requested to go to the Raleigh gym and be on a team there as well.

And yes, the name is the drawing power, and it is utilized that way.

Could be, it is reasonable to drive to Raleigh from Greenville, but not Kernersville, especially with $6 a gallon gas. Unless you are really, really, really motivated.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

In response to StarshipTrooper I posted this in the previous thread at about the same time it got locked:I do have a huge issue with USASF, and in particular crossovers but I have no vote on the rules committee, so short of sending them emails with my input there is nothing I can do to help change the rules - if I am mistaken and can do more through USASF, please let me know. I can, however, join the vast majority in voicing my opinion on this board in hopes that USASF representatives will recognize major shortcomings in their rules. Regardless, I highly doubt USASF put the rule of no more than ten substitutions in place with the thought process of “hey– why don’t you have ten of your athletes who have already competed this season on teams that received a paid bid and will compete at Worlds on those teams and put them on a team that can’t get a bid on their own so that they can get a bid and then we will have some evaluations to fill the third of the team that can’t legally compete at Worlds because they are already competitng with another team. Is it legal what was done? As much as I hate it, yes it is. Is it ethical? I don’t think so, but you do – we can agree to disagee. Does it show a huge problem with the current rules? I absolutely think so. And one last thought – you seem to think it is only because it relates CEA that I am posting this. However, I have been vocal about other gyms who I don’t feel play within the intent of the rules. I happen to believe that when something is occurring that is detrimental to the sport regardless of whether it is “legal”, it may not be in the spirit in which the rule was created, and should be discussed to better the progression of our sport.

I am not defending the medium co-ed team. I'll leave it at that and let her if she wants. I do understand real concerns there. I am defending the attempt to paint the whole program which we have been intimately involved for over 12 years with a brush of unethical, amoral, bad sportsmanship and the basis of that decision and bid. That is unfair to the athletes, staff and parents who have worked REAL HARD to be successful within the rules. There is misinformation of the amount and effect of these crossovers through the years, and I have seen it much like Missy. To that point, through all the uproar over a "tryout for Worlds teams" I think maybe one replacement during the year for SE could be replaced by an injured original member. That is all I have heard about.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

Just getting caught up on all the excitement today. I did learn something new.

Excessive: an amount used by someone else's team.

I learned something too.
World bids: something programs are willing to do anything within the rubber boundaries of cheer-law to acquire, while at the same time loudly complaining that "anyone can get a bid".

 

[SarahS]

I learned something too.
World bids: something programs are willing to do anything within the rubber boundaries of cheer-law to acquire, while at the same time loudly complaining that "anyone can get a bid".

I should just follow you around the boards, nodding my head in agreement, lol.