All-Star Time To Intervene?

[AndyT_T]

Yesterday at a competition there was a level 4 team out on the floor that will remain nameless. I can't even count the amount of stunts that fell, flyers that face planted, bases and backspots that hit the floor, bad tumble busts and numerous safety issues. The crowd was covering their eyes and literally getting into the fetal position in their chairs watching these athletes hit the floor, hard, over and over, again. By the time the team got to their dance, the whole audience was cheering them on in relief that noone was seriously hurt. This was far beyond any "just having a bad day", these athletes were, obviously, being requested to do stunts and tumbling they just weren't ready for, physically or mentally . Is there ever a point where someone intervenes and tells a gym you have to compete that team at a lower level for the safety of the kids?

There is a gym near us that is the exact same. Everyone cringes when they go on.
Legit every single stunt falls during the stunt section and half of the flyers hit the ground.

And dont even get me started on tumbling :eek:

 

[AndyT_T]

I was at a competition this weekend and saw a few programs like this. It was down right scary to watch and I almost wanted to go tell them to stop. This one team was in warmups in front of us and was doing level 2 stunts (tick rocks and extensions) They were dropping flyers from extensions to their heads. They were not ready to do extensions year and she in the heck weren't ready to be standing on their opposite leg. Nearly every team from this program took last place and the crowd was gasping and turning away. This gym also had bad sportsmanship, coaches, athletes and parents were rude. To me, it was the worst absolute gym I have met to date. I almost wanted to send the owner an email but Im sure she has enough to worry about with 4ish (Pretty sure it was 4) kids being taken off the mat in a stretcher or by am EMT!

I think we're thinking of the same gym...

 

[SharkDad]

When we have our showcase I tell the spectators any mistakes you see are the coaches fault. It's our job to make sure they are ready for the stage whether it be physical or mental. I cannot imagine sending my teams out to crash and burn like that. I've seen teams like this before too and I always wonder what the coaches were thinking.

What you get at practice is what you get onstage so those performances are happening in the gym as well. A prepared team can pull off a better than usual performance. A team that isn't prepared simply will NOT be magically awesome onstage.

I always love your coaching and leadership philosophies.

 

[SharkDad]

As extreme as it sounds, it's like watching an approved form of child abuse. Four kids seriously hurt because of someone choosing to level up to appease "someone" is beyond reckless in my opinion. I don't believe these owners/coaches/parents are that delusional, I believe these are cases of adults wanting something and they don't care who gets hurt in the process as long as they get what they want. After a certain number of deductions, I think the music should stop to protect those kids.

Just my opinion, don't hurt the catlady.

It is like child abuse. cheersafety has coined the term "athlete abuse" I believe. I have said many times this is a youth sport and should do everything to protect the youth. The judges or EPs should have reported/stopped that gym from competing any more kids if they were being reckless with their safety but I don't think anyone in the "industry" is willing to do that right now.

 

[quietmom]

Yesterday at a competition there was a level 4 team out on the floor that will remain nameless. I can't even count the amount of stunts that fell, flyers that face planted, bases and backspots that hit the floor, bad tumble busts and numerous safety issues. The crowd was covering their eyes and literally getting into the fetal position in their chairs watching these athletes hit the floor, hard, over and over, again. By the time the team got to their dance, the whole audience was cheering them on in relief that noone was seriously hurt. This was far beyond any "just having a bad day", these athletes were, obviously, being requested to do stunts and tumbling they just weren't ready for, physically or mentally . Is there ever a point where someone intervenes and tells a gym you have to compete that team at a lower level for the safety of the kids?

My kids were at this competition in another division. I saw the same thing. It wasn't just one team from this gym. It was multiple. It was beyond horrifying to watch. There was one where an athlete vomited on the stage. As a parent, I care about the safety of my kid first. If this stuff were happening on my child's team, they would be pulled from the team and be taken somewhere else. A spinal chord injury can be permanent and life threatening. I do not think people here get how horrifyingly awful this was this past weekend.

I really hope that the parents involved spoke up and gave these coaches and gym owners hell. What happened this past weekend should have never happened. These kids (and yes, they are kids as their bodies are still developing) could have had injuries that they may have never been able to recover from it was that bad.

 

[catlady]

My husband has an interesting take on this that may or may not have merit, I shall call him "catman". My husband has been taking our daughter to private tumble at a gymnastics gym around the corner. The owner has told my husband that she has seen a growing trend with parents removing their kids from gymnastics and putting them in Allstar. She told him they are more than often going in at level 4 and 5 because of their tumble abilities BUT, she also said, that many of these kids have wrist, stress fractures and shoulder injuries within the first month or two because, these kids, although very strong, do not have the muscle development required to do the stunting.

Owners/coaches, have you noticed this trend, as well? If so, do you feel a gymnast can come in safely at a level 4 or 5 without any stunting skills?

 

[Mclovin]

My husband has an interesting take on this that may or may not have merit, I shall call him "catman". My husband has been taking our daughter to private tumble at a gymnastics gym around the corner. The owner has told my husband that she has seen a growing trend with parents removing their kids from gymnastics and putting them in Allstar. She told him they are more than often going in at level 4 and 5 because of their tumble abilities BUT, she also said, that many of these kids have wrist, stress fractures and shoulder injuries within the first month or two because, these kids, although very strong, do not have the muscle development required to do the stunting.

Owners/coaches, have you noticed this trend, as well? If so, do you feel a gymnast can come in safely at a level 4 or 5 without any stunting skills?

The gymnasts starting out at level 4 and 5 is an accurate assessment for our gym. BUT if my memory serves me correctly, we have NEVER had an injury from any of these athletes as a result of stunting. Some of them have incurred minor injuries from tumbling, but never stunting. So I'm not sure where she gets that statistic. If anything, the gymnasts new to cheer end up serving a not so important role in the stunting the first year until they can learn to catch on to the upper level stunting requirements.

 

[UpsideDownGirlsMom]

As an ex-gymnastics judge that first thing that was made clear to us is that it was our responsibility to stop a gymnast if we see them attempting skills that they are clearly not ready for. And I'm talking about athletes being totally reckless, like throwing a tumbling skill over and over that crashes extremely badly each time, not just a standard fall. Because if the athlete is hurt, we could potentially open ourselves up to a lawsuit for allowing this type of behavior to continue. As a judge we got to watch the girls in both warmups and competition and I know that is not the case for cheer. But I would think that at least the EP would be concerned about issues that could arise and make sure that teams in warmups are not being purpously reckless. Then the judges can use their own discresion when the team is on the cometition floor.

 

[SharkDad]

As an ex-gymnastics judge that first thing that was made clear to us is that it was our responsibility to stop a gymnast if we see them attempting skills that they are clearly not ready for. And I'm talking about athletes being totally reckless, like throwing a tumbling skill over and over that crashes extremely badly each time, not just a standard fall. Because if the athlete is hurt, we could potentially open ourselves up to a lawsuit for allowing this type of behavior to continue. As a judge we got to watch the girls in both warmups and competition and I know that is not the case for cheer. But I would think that at least the EP would be concerned about issues that could arise and make sure that teams in warmups are not being purpously reckless. Then the judges can use their own discresion when the team is on the cometition floor.

An EP may tell you they are doing this but from spending some time in a number of warm-up areas, the majority of judges I know will only check and try to warn about illegalities. I have never heard of any judges stop a team from being able to go on the floor.

 

[kristenthegreat]

What about a cumulative deduction-stopping point? That way if it's just ONE team from a gym having an off day one time, it's not going to be ridiculous but if it's multiple teams it's a kill switch? Or if it's the same team multiple times?

I'm not great with numbers and every comp is different, but if a certain percentage of gyms points are deductions, they are disqualified from that comp for a year and the gym is noted on some USASF page (if they're a member gym)? Or some other such punishment (I can see how EPs would be hesitant about something that would drive away $$$).

 

[SharkDad]

What about a cumulative deduction-stopping point? That way if it's just ONE team from a gym having an off day one time, it's not going to be ridiculous but if it's multiple teams it's a kill switch? Or if it's the same team multiple times?

I'm not great with numbers and every comp is different, but if a certain percentage of gyms points are deductions, they are disqualified from that comp for a year and the gym is noted on some USASF page (if they're a member gym)? Or some other such punishment (I can see how EPs would be hesitant about something that would drive away $$$).

This is a simple problem that can be solved similar to the gymnastics solution where you tie it to real safety and liability standards.

 

[quietmom]

Honestly, I hope that this was some strange "all the kids had the flu" fluke and never happens again. I also hope all the kids who got injured are ok.

 

[Jennie]

Assessing the individual athletes seems so good on paper, but would be a nightmare!
Imagine Suzy gets put on Level 4 after tryouts, works like a beast all summer and gets her Level 5 flying skills - an assesser would have to go to her gym for that. Then 2 weeks later in tumbling class Suzy finally gets her full - that means the assessor is on her way back out to Suzys gym... now multiply that by the 10000s of kids doing Allstar...

 

[Cheerforme]

Do parents really stick around for that? For that season maybe, but usually they are long gone as soon as possible...

Everyone wants to win... I would think it's going to be a hard sell for your gym if you are constantly in last place.

Speaking for my daughter - we did not stick around for it. We moved from rec cheer to allstars and she was already a level 5. The team we went to was a brand new cheer team at a gymnastics school - I thought this would make transition to allstars easier - I had coached her and her rec team for 4 years and they basically all out grew the rec level but I felt like allstars was to big a commitment. After only one season of "pretending" to be a level 5 and more often then not dropping to a level 4 at the last minute...I decided this was not the best place for my daughter to grow into allstars...wish I had done it years sooner...but she reached her goal of being on the World's team and tool a ninth place her first year out (first year for that World's team as well) - quite a feat in the small all girls division as many teams as there are!

 

[CricketCheerMom]

There is a gym near us that is the exact same. Everyone cringes when they go on.
Legit every single stunt falls during the stunt section and half of the flyers hit the ground.

And dont even get me started on tumbling :eek:

Every region has one of those gyms....