Tiny Young Flyers

[cheer25mom]

Under 5ft? :eek: Um no. Maddie was taller than her bases. So, was JZ. The other women I mentioned were relatively muscular and none under 5ft tall. I understand your point, I was making my own that was related to your post. I've seen some crazy side heel-stretches lately in LAG. There was one team for whom this was a major issue along with flexibility. Most of their flyers were tiny. In a couple of years, will they be better? Sure. But, size and ability are not mutually exclusive. Just like bases need time to learn good stunting techniques, a young flyer needs to learn as well. I'd hope that coaches are coaching the entire team and not depending on a flyers size to make things easier. In that scenario, if all the stunts fall, will it be because the bases weren't big enough? Of course not, that wouldn't make sense. But stunts are easier because a girl is tinier?... In a perfect world all things would be equal. But, I think experience counts for more than physical attributes.

And yes, most of the girls you mentioned, including Maddie are TINY for a fully grown adult. Sometimes it's hard to see that on the mat, though. My child was bigger than her at 11. We passed her at Cheersport (this was after she was done cheering I think. She wasn't in a uniform) and I remember thinking, "my word she is tiny. She looks so much taller on the mat". She was definitely under 5 ft because CP was barely 5 ft at the time. I agree that she doesn't look that small on the mat though.

I think there must be a balance between ability ( not necessarily experience, but ability) and physical attributes. You can have every skill in the books, but if you are 5'8" and 150, you aren't flying all girl. I think to best flyer (or best anything for that matter) for the job should always get it. They should be choosing the girls who benefit the team most, period and that takes into account more than just body positions. A good coach considers who is hitting the stunt consistently, how much wear and tear and fatigue the stunt is generating in the bases ect. It's more than an emotional decision.


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[Keep_Believing]

I have read more than once that MG was 5'7.

* Edited , from googling appears to be 5'7. I agree being smaller is usually an advantage. MG appears to be an exception.

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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Y'all.

When you coach you work smart not hard.

If you have a talented group of newly senior aged flyers who are experienced with Level 5 and tiny, you are going to put them in the air over the girls who are like, high school aged and 5'4+.

It just makes sense.

 

[luv2cheer92]

And yes, most of the girls you mentioned, including Maddie are TINY for a fully grown adult. Sometimes it's hard to see that on the mat, though. My child was bigger than her at 11. We passed her at Cheersport (this was after she was done cheering I think. She wasn't in a uniform) and I remember thinking, "my word she is tiny. She looks so much taller on the mat". She was definitely under 5 ft because CP was barely 5 ft at the time. I agree that she doesn't look that small on the mat though.

I think there must be a balance between ability ( not necessarily experience, but ability) and physical attributes. You can have every skill in the books, but if you are 5'8" and 150, you aren't flying all girl. I think to best flyer (or best anything for that matter) for the job should always get it. They should be choosing the girls who benefit the team most, period and that takes into account more than just body positions. A good coach considers who is hitting the stunt consistently, how much wear and tear and fatigue the stunt is generating in the bases ect. It's more than an emotional decision.


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MG is definitely way taller than that. I'm 5'4" and she was a good couple inches taller than me when I walked past her one time.

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[omgitssydthekid]

And yes, most of the girls you mentioned, including Maddie are TINY for a fully grown adult. Sometimes it's hard to see that on the mat, though. My child was bigger than her at 11. We passed her at Cheersport (this was after she was done cheering I think. She wasn't in a uniform) and I remember thinking, "my word she is tiny. She looks so much taller on the mat". She was definitely under 5 ft because CP was barely 5 ft at the time. I agree that she doesn't look that small on the mat though.

I think there must be a balance between ability ( not necessarily experience, but ability) and physical attributes. You can have every skill in the books, but if you are 5'8" and 150, you aren't flying all girl. I think to best flyer (or best anything for that matter) for the job should always get it. They should be choosing the girls who benefit the team most, period and that takes into account more than just body positions. A good coach considers who is hitting the stunt consistently, how much wear and tear and fatigue the stunt is generating in the bases ect. It's more than an emotional decision.


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Maddie was my flyer idol because I was a tall flyer too. I have a picture with her from my Junior year in high school when I was about 5' 5" and she was taller than I was in that picture.

Gabie was a little bit shorter than I was and I know Erica was short but I'm pretty sure she was taller than 5' tall based on the picture I have with her from that competition as well.



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[cheer25mom]

Maddie was my flyer idol because I was a tall flyer too. I have a picture with her from my Junior year in high school when I was about 5' 5" and she was taller than I was in that picture.

Gabie was a little bit shorter than I was and I know Erica was short but I'm pretty sure she was taller than 5' tall based on the picture I have with her from that competition as well.



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I was apparently thinking of the wrong kid with Maddie, must have been a different blonde cheerlebrity, but Gabby has been in our gym with a clinic and is close to CP's height at 5'1" and my 130 lb CP definitely outweighs her by a good amount. She is still an exception as far as worlds flyers go though.


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[AnotherCheerMom]

"Fetus Flyer" needs to be tossed in the recycle bin with "Loyalty". Good grief.

 

[MissCongeniality]

I think some of the "angst" (not sure that is the best word but use what you will) that surrounds these issues around flying stem from women and body image issues. Heaven forbid we are referred to as "too big"! If your daughter is basing she must be "too big" to fly. I feel that for some parents it is a race against the ticking clock... I mean they can't look in the mirror and then look at their (not yet hit puberty) flyer and honestly think "she has a career as a flyer" when they are staring at their own 5'7" frame. But because the flyer is the one who gets so much attention out there (again... not saying it is right, just a reality in this sport) some parents become delusional... Sadly, I have seen some starve their children (wish I was making that up... I'm not and in more than one instance) to "stay small enough to fly".

 

[CLynn]

I think some of the "angst" (not sure that is the best word but use what you will) that surrounds these issues around flying stem from women and body image issues. Heaven forbid we are referred to as "too big"! If your daughter is basing she must be "too big" to fly. I feel that for some parents it is a race against the ticking clock... I mean they can't look in the mirror and then look at their (not yet hit puberty) flyer and honestly think "she has a career as a flyer" when they are staring at their own 5'7" frame. But because the flyer is the one who gets so much attention out there (again... not saying it is right, just a reality in this sport) some parents become delusional... Sadly, I have seen some starve their children (wish I was making that up... I'm not and in more than one instance) to "stay small enough to fly".

This may be the case for some but definitely not for me! I have seen many beautiful flyers get too tall or big and have to learn to base when all of their other skills are say level 3, 4 or 5. I understand and agree that the 10 year old flyer would be an easier lift but still stinks for the athlete that needs to learn the new position and can't progress with levels...We are a small family (my husband is barely 5' 6 and I am smaller), I do think my girls "have careers as flyers"BUT I recognize even the smallest 14 years olds would be big compared with small 10 year olds. Just is what it is as long as the age grid is so wide . And I do not care if my daughter has attention (believe me I would be happy if she never had to enroll in another flyer class again), I just do not know what position she can fill if not flying and I do not want her to spend another year on the same level learning to base. To that last point I will say I wish our gym had stunt classes where my daughter could learn to base so when the inevitable happens she has some skills.

 

[MissCongeniality]

This may be the case for some but definitely not for me! I have seen many beautiful flyers get too tall or big and have to learn to base when all of their other skills are say level 3, 4 or 5. I understand and agree that the 10 year old flyer would be an easier lift but still stinks for the athlete that needs to learn the new position and can't progress with levels...We are a small family (my husband is barely 5' 6 and I am smaller), I do think my girls "have careers as flyers"BUT I recognize even the smallest 14 years olds would be big compared with small 10 year olds. Just is what it is as long as the age grid is so wide . And I do not care if my daughter has attention (believe me I would be happy if she never had to enroll in another flyer class again), I just do not know what position she can fill if not flying and I do not want her to spend another year on the same level learning to base. To that last point I will say I wish our gym had stunt classes where my daughter could learn to base so when the inevitable happens she has some skills.

I did say "some" recognizing that genetically speaking there are girls who are predisposed to being full grown and still "flyer size". I feel like those moms aren't quite as "fly or die". Though of course there are always exceptions to every "rule".... and when it comes to youth sports... all bets are off!

 

[XtremeWpg]

Tiny flyer A (under 5 feet, under 100 lbs) - refused to carry her weight, or couldn't. I ended up with a partial tear in a rhomboid because of back spotting her and her flopping from the sky
"large" flyer (5'7", 130ish lbs) - a dream for me to back. Did her job, held her own.
Tiny flyer B (under 5 feet, under 100 lbs) - Loved to fly her. Did her job etc.

I prefer long leg flyers. Love how they look. Does tiny = good? No. But "large" doesn't equal bad either.

Coaches, myself included, will put whoever can do the job best up there. Regardless of size. Putting a limit on the size of a flyer is an offensive concept. Should we but a weight limit on bases? "Sorry Susie, you're weighing in a a buck sixty, too bad for you." Exactly how well would that go over?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not going to start measuring and weighing teenage girls and grouping them accordingly. As if there aren't enough sources of body image issues in the world.

 

[cheer25mom]

Tiny flyer A (under 5 feet, under 100 lbs) - refused to carry her weight, or couldn't. I ended up with a partial tear in a rhomboid because of back spotting her and her flopping from the sky
"large" flyer (5'7", 130ish lbs) - a dream for me to back. Did her job, held her own.
Tiny flyer B (under 5 feet, under 100 lbs) - Loved to fly her. Did her job etc.

I prefer long leg flyers. Love how they look. Does tiny = good? No. But "large" doesn't equal bad either.

Coaches, myself included, will put whoever can do the job best up there. Regardless of size. Putting a limit on the size of a flyer is an offensive concept. Should we but a weight limit on bases? "Sorry Susie, you're weighing in a a buck sixty, too bad for you." Exactly how well would that go over?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not going to start measuring and weighing teenage girls and grouping them accordingly. As if there aren't enough sources of body image issues in the world.

The problem with this philosophy is that no one has to lift a base, so their weight doesn't effect anyone else. Like it or not, a flyers weight has a direct impact on her bases. It's a far more complicated issue that effects more than just the flyer themselves. Do I think we should ground someone solely based on weight? Not necessarily, but neither do I think a heavier flyer should stay in the air at the expense of wear and tear on her bases, or just to prove a point at the expense of the team. With the increasing difficulty we are seeing in stunting these days, over use injuries in bases are a real concern. My CP is dealing with one right now. It's also making it harder to hit with bigger/ taller girls. It's not fair, but it's reality. A flyers weight HAS to be a consideration.


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[Shay Marie]

I've noticed that my best bases are the girls who used to fly.

This is very true, I recently started basing for the first time due to the mini girls on my team who are like me, very small for their age to be basing but of course since I am bigger than the 3 flyers I now base after 9-10 years. First stunt I tried was a full up and it hit right away. Coach was so impressed that a flyer easily hit these stunts as a base. Best bases are always the flyers that paid attention to the corrections their bases were receiving while they were flying not just to their position corrections.

 

[XtremeWpg]

The problem with this philosophy is that no one has to lift a base, so their weight doesn't effect anyone else. Like it or not, a flyers weight has a direct impact on her bases. It's a far more complicated issue that effects more than just the flyer themselves. Do I think we should ground someone solely based on weight? Not necessarily, but neither do I think a heavier flyer should stay in the air at the expense of wear and tear on her bases, or just to prove a point at the expense of the team. With the increasing difficulty we are seeing in stunting these days, over use injuries in bases are a real concern. My CP is dealing with one right now. It's also making it harder to hit with bigger/ taller girls. It's not fair, but it's reality. A flyers weight HAS to be a consideration.


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Everyone's weight is technically a consideration when you consider overall fitness and athletic ability. I agree, having a "large" flyer just for the sake of proving a point isn't any more safe for the group than having a "tiny" floppy noodle flyer. It's a complex issue and the OP has a problem with "tiny" flyers. Like I said, coaches should do what's best for the team with all positions, skills and choreography. But I will never weigh kids to figure out if that 5 pounds will have an impact. If the stunt hits consistently and safely, that's the flyer who's going in.

 

[cheer25mom]

Everyone's weight is technically a consideration when you consider overall fitness and athletic ability. I agree, having a "large" flyer just for the sake of proving a point isn't any more safe for the group than having a "tiny" floppy noodle flyer. It's a complex issue and the OP has a problem with "tiny" flyers. Like I said, coaches should do what's best for the team with all positions, skills and choreography. But I will never weigh kids to figure out if that 5 pounds will have an impact. If the stunt hits consistently and safely, that's the flyer who's going in.

What if you have say, 4 spots, and 6 flyers that can hit safely and consistently, then how do you decide? It's that point where things like, who is fatiguing their bases the most, etc should come into play.


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