All-Star Too Many Boys On The Floor

[yojaehs]

Bump and I will continue to until either answers or glue!!

 

[hopskipandjump]

I think it speaks volumes in a USA dominant audience that Bangkok was the crowd favorite. Americans love underdogs and Cinderella stories in sports. I am sure nothing can take away from the feeling that Bangkok had as they were embraced by an audience as they performed. However, Bangkok and your team were not the ONLY two teams in this division. Had it been ONLY two teams and you were willing to concede to knowing illegal pyramids and too many team players were on the mat, it would have been a different thread started here. This is about the integrity of the sport and many more teams (beside your own) hoping to play by the rules and win by the rules. It would be great to know if the USASF people went to all the competing teams in this division and explained whatever was explained to you so that they too could make concessions or at least make sense of it. I am not convinced a ruckus would have ensued if anyone questioned an uneven playing field and illegalities. Noone disputes that your team got what they deserved or how happy we are for your athletes, but rather, the dismay that not ALL teams had a fighting chance.

"This is about the integrity of the sport and many more teams (beside your own) hoping to play by the rules and win by the rules."
Exactly. Here is a situation to help explain where I come from: My tiny team received last place at a local US Finals (would have placed 7th) competition because they were called on an illegal 1/4 turn twisting dismount. Now, my tiny team was not taught that, nor was it choreographed that way. The 2 girls, 4 and 5, happened to both step down from 2 girls backs (on their knees) and turned that way to avoid hitting the head of one and one girl was sort of falling off. I explained that to the judge who gave us a 5.25 deduction. She said she had to follow USASF rules. Now, normally, I would accept that as a decision (even though this was not intent, frankly just an accident), but why should I accept that decision now? Clearly, they don't follow the rules at Worlds.

 

[SharkDad]

Bump and I will continue to until either answers or glue!!

Subtle, I get it. Wish we had that smiley

 

[King]

:deadhorse:

 

[newcheerdad]

:banghead:

 

[King]

:cheering::chestbump::cookie::enjoyshow::cow::fro::help::kiss::starwars::stupid::wasntme::deadhorse:

Ill add more over time. Love the Cow.

 

[Rusty]

So HYPOTHETICALLY... What IF, next season Team "Q" competes in the Large Coed division with 20 boys and a USASF safety judge looks at the book from THIS season that says "unlimited" boys, and that team competes semi's and finals and WINS Worlds? Now, do I think this could or would happen, NO, BUT in my opinion this is the same as the current situation. I'm kind of annoyed that this is being swept under the rug as an "oops". Yes USASF has done a lot for cheer and improving the competition but common, seriously? Lets not forget missing the spotted tuck, I still laugh every time I see that these judges who were so anal about a show & go and prep dismounts don't know level 6 rules. I just don't get it, are we supposed to just sit back and say "well the USASF said its ok for that team so lets just deal with it"?

Has anyone gone back & reviewed tapes of the other finalist for any rules violations?

Beyond too many boys, spotted back tuck, challenges of a show & go and a prep dismount what if any other Rules Violations were committed?

What process is in place for the results of any competition sponsored by USASF/IASF for challenging the results in a competition either by another Judge or by another competitive Team?

Without a “Due Process” to either request a “Video Review” or some method for challenging a score or portion of a competition routine the USASF/IASF are basically saying two things to all competitors, Coaches and parents:
1. We are always right … & we know the rules better than you.
2. We really do NOT care what you think!
Some other thoughts may occur for you so let’s hear them!

 

[Rusty]

As I said, I don't EXPECT it on every issue...but being that this has now become a very big deal that MANY people know about and are invested in, AND it IS Worlds....they really should be accountable to all of us in the community and address and fix it. If they don't, it just makes them look worse, even if they have a perfectly good solution.

And I talk to PLENTY of USASF "reps" and others. I am very involved in the industry. Unfortunately, from most, I get pretty much the runaround that most people have just come to expect anymore. Sad...but true.

Actions speak louder than words (read as APOLOGIES)
… so is the USASF/IASF being conducted as a true “National Governing Body” (NGB) created for the safety of the athletes with consistent rules for all participants … or behaving more as a true “CORPORATE for-profit” motivated organization leveraging the situation as an opportunity to grow business Internationally since the US market is currently saturated?

Actions speak much louder than words, so my question is, “what has been done to rectify the issue of too many boys on the floor?”
From everything discussed regarding this topic so far it appears to be more action in words by placing a “positive CORPORATE spin” announcement on what happened, NOT correcting the issue through actions by recognizing the correct Champion or addressing methods by which “Rule Challenges” will be addressed for future competitions!
Therefore, I ask again, “Is the ACTION of placing a positive spin on the topic without altering the results representative of an NGB, … or that of a “for-profit corporation” defending their opportunities to grow New Markets through the International venue?”

 

[Rusty]

:cheering::chestbump::cookie::enjoyshow::cow::fro::help::kiss::starwars::stupid::wasntme::deadhorse:

Ill add more over time. Love the Cow.

I much prefer your last image illustrating beating a dead burro!

 

[Rusty]

Discussing it on the board is a great way to get views and see if your view is the same as the people who have the same passions... where in this thread I think it is a majority on what view everyone has got stuck in their head right now. I also talk to Coaches around the US and NC Alliance is in the making so there is a lot of talk about this situation even off the boards...

Like I said before I am FOR the USASF and Now when I go to conferences such as Doral. I can now back up why I KNOW it is wrong if the governing body does not do anything about this. It is called TRUST... We all learn this when we are children and moves into friendship, relationships etc... If people have trust issues they will start splitting and we will all be back at square one and I DONT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN. I was here before USASF and we had to change our routine for every competition we went to b/c of different rules. So please make people trust you USASF

Also you are saying it should be the right of the people that competed against them in that div. to speak up and say something... I think yes...
but it is the voice of us all that are apart of the USASF that will make the difference happen.

If everyone accepts that USA Cheer is the NGB (National Governing Board) for “all things Cheer” then why isn’t USA Cheer addressing these challenges? Does USA Cheer really have the authority to surface & correct rule violations within USASF/IASF? Did a majority of USASF/IASF ever vote to approve USA Cheer as their NGB? Does USA Cheer supersede USASF/IASF?

Where is the “due process” for challenging the results/scores for any competition performance by either the Coach of the Team, or Coaches of the other Teams in the same Division? Does this process exist in USASF/IASF?

“Too many Boys” is one more example of a “for-profit” Corporation influences upon “all things cheer” adding into the discussion the CSULB challenge only begins to add publicity to the facts illustrating VB’s pursuit of profit … not support and enforcement for correct actions by active competitors!

 

[Rusty]

I have debated this for a while. First, I was more affected by the misguidance in the application of the scoresheet and how it was used by the judges in my final placement than whatever happened in finals. I am still a bit flustered by that, to say the least. And as long as that hangs out like an elephant in the room I don't know if I can make a complaint without seeming to have an ulterior motive.

I am mostly frustrated because I thought we had come farther than this. I thought where cheer was is better because of the USASF because it is above all the nonsense, and, at the end of the day, didn't have to care if it pissed off customers because it did what was right and fair and that is what made the competition worth it. But, alas, it is not. And my thoughts on this competition and the objective will go away tainted. Remember, this is an organization I WANT to work and succeed. So to say I am... well.. just plain disappointed in what happened is pretty right on. What else can I say?

Defending the rights of your athletes is the responsibility of Coaches! No one is wrong in having an opinion, some are simply more qualified through “Life Experiences” to address ALL issues of inequality when applying rules for determining competitive results.

You are defending the expectations of your athletes, parents and supporters by voicing concerns for application of ALL stated rules in a consistent manner, YOU ARE RIGHT TO DO SO! By the way … you are the best-qualified individual to voice that concern to any Governing Body of Competitions. Apparently, USASF needs an additional documented method for challenging scores.

 

[SharkDad]

If everyone accepts that USA Cheer is the NGB (National Governing Board) for “all things Cheer” then why isn’t USA Cheer addressing these challenges? Does USA Cheer really have the authority to surface & correct rule violations within USASF/IASF? Did a majority of USASF/IASF ever vote to approve USA Cheer as their NGB? Does USA Cheer supersede USASF/IASF?

Where is the “due process” for challenging the results/scores for any competition performance by either the Coach of the Team, or Coaches of the other Teams in the same Division? Does this process exist in USASF/IASF?

“Too many Boys” is one more example of a “for-profit” Corporation influences upon “all things cheer” adding into the discussion the CSULB challenge only begins to add publicity to the facts illustrating VB’s pursuit of profit … not support and enforcement for correct actions by active competitors!

- Not everyone recognizes USA Cheer as the NGB for all things cheer. It is a self-declared statement on their website. USAF supports USA Cheer though. I know this is true but I am not sure if I can say this is "official." I will see if it's stated anywhere.

- USA Cheer doesn't have any real authority stated anywhere by anyone. Although they have a good cross-section of the cheer community in their board (AACCA, NFHS, etc.). They do, however control everything to do with Team USA and are the primary representative to the ICU.

- No one voted to create USA Cheer. Jeff Webb just did it (that's something I read from his testimony last year).

This is not a reflection for or against USA Cheer, but I don't think their influence or interaction at this point has anything to do with Worlds (at least not out in the open).

 

[BlueCat]

Actions speak louder than words (read as APOLOGIES)
… so is the USASF/IASF being conducted as a true “National Governing Body” (NGB) created for the safety of the athletes with consistent rules for all participants … or behaving more as a true “CORPORATE for-profit” motivated organization leveraging the situation as an opportunity to grow business Internationally since the US market is currently saturated?

Actions speak much louder than words, so my question is, “what has been done to rectify the issue of too many boys on the floor?”
From everything discussed regarding this topic so far it appears to be more action in words by placing a “positive CORPORATE spin” announcement on what happened, NOT correcting the issue through actions by recognizing the correct Champion or addressing methods by which “Rule Challenges” will be addressed for future competitions!
Therefore, I ask again, “Is the ACTION of placing a positive spin on the topic without altering the results representative of an NGB, … or that of a “for-profit corporation” defending their opportunities to grow New Markets through the International venue?”

Because we all know that government entities never put a spin on anything and always immediately present the complete truth in all situations.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Please remember that right now, without the scores being released, we are assuming no deductions were given for illegal element.

 

[cheerinfo]

Please remember that right now, without the scores being released, we are assuming no deductions were given for illegal element.

I cannot imagine they were assessed all penalties and STILL tied for first. They don't even score high enough without penalties except in pyramids to win IMO. So I am going to say it is safe to say SOMETHING fishy is going on here...and I think it stinks.