All-Star Too Many Boys On The Floor

[cheerinfo]

As I said, I don't EXPECT it on every issue...but being that this has now become a very big deal that MANY people know about and are invested in, AND it IS Worlds....they really should be accountable to all of us in the community and address and fix it. If they don't, it just makes them look worse, even if they have a perfectly good solution.

And I talk to PLENTY of USASF "reps" and others. I am very involved in the industry. Unfortunately, from most, I get pretty much the runaround that most people have just come to expect anymore. Sad...but true.

 

[coachrah]

Individually you all have good points and valid opinions, but there is no reason why you should expect the USASF (or any governing body) to give you an answer to why anything happened or how they will\will not correct a situation.

Collectively, all the member athletes, coaches and owners have a voice.

Well, I am sitting here a bit confused. In the past month we have a collegiate program that really won because it was found out by CALB University administration that the coach put an illegal athlete on the floor. NCA gave the title to the real winner in the collegiate situation. Is that because the outside world of sport/activity stepped in and called out for the proper justice to be delivered? And now at Worlds we have the same issue, not only with illegal team members but blatant deductions which caused improper placement. This is a pay to play system. Coaches are customers and want answers. Coaches and gym owners have paying customers they want answers. Collectively, all the member athletes, coaches and owners have a voice..right NOW and they are asking right NOW and you are suggesting they should not expect an answer or the release of scoresheets. This is absurd!

 

[SharkDad]

I think each of your statements has gone beyond just the scope of this thread and maybe it's time to start a new one. Regardless:

1. It is my understanding that the school involved went to the event producer (not the governing body because there is not one for college cheer) and asked to remedy the situation. NCA was asked to investigate, but never had to because CSLB gave up the title. We don't really know what NCAs response would have been. To keep that related to this thread, Bangkok would have to go to the Worlds Committe and say they don't feel right about all this and want to and an investigation should be launched IF GT, TG, or Texas request it to the Disciplinary or International Sanctioning Committees.

2. My understanding is this is not an issue of illegal team members, it's improper rostering. Just trying to keep that straight. (were the team members not eligible to compete at worlds vs and improperly structured team)

3. There is always debate about sport vs industry. The term is not as important as everyone understanding that there is currently no mistaking everything about this sport is driven by the companies that run it, not the governing body. The governing body has been very busy putting out guidelines, but has very little power (in my opinion) because it has poor members hip and very little support form all sides.

You may not like it, but none of this is ubsurd, it's reality.

 

[socratesofcheer]

Individually you all have good points and valid opinions, but there is no reason why you should expect the USASF (or any governing body) to give you an answer to why anything happened or how they will\will not correct a situation.

Collectively, all the member athletes, coaches and owners have a voice.

Why should you? Do they have a policy of answering every one your concerns?

That is very matter of fact so don't take it as sarcastic or negative. The reality is they don't HAVE to answer to any of us, and even then probably only to the coaches or gym owners from the teams that are affected.

Do you want better communication? Contact your USASF rep, let your coaches and gym owners know, or go to the meetings if you ar a coach.

I do not know you personally, but, I have learned that you are for the betterment of the sport. With that being said, I am somewhat shocked at your (non)stance on this issue. Here we are, 10 days out from Worlds and the USASF is acting like nothing happened.

This message board is a collective voice for many people in the cheerleading world. Look at the Jr worlds(2010) and Brandon not receiving a bid at UCA as examples of the power of the people. When the USASF messed up and UCA messed up, this board was full of people wanting the RIGHT thing to be done. To some degree this message board helped call attention to the mistakes. Here we are again and the folks want the RIGHT thing to be done.

I think with the number of views that this thread alone has accumulated(10,000+), is a far larger voice than a rules meeting where 700 people vote.

 

[hopskipandjump]

I am a gym owner. I pay my dues to become a member of our governing body. I deserve an answer to this question; maybe not on Fierceboard, but certainly from the USASF governing body. It would really help their cause to just address to their members, not to brush it off and hope it dies. It is not going to die. People will leave this organization if they do not get a response. I have to answer to my parents who are paying money to join. They want an answer. And I do too.
I think Shark Dad that you are missing the bigger issue: If USASF does not follow their own rules, then nothing is VALID.

 

[SharkDad]

I agree with you. Any smart person in this sport would be silly to not pay attention to what subjects are being discussed more than others.

That still doesn't mean USASF, any event producer, or anyone else HAS to to change because of anything we say here. We have a lot more power than people take credit for but discussions like this are no more than sharing ideas. It take real actions for anything to change.

What are you willing to do about it?

 

[SharkDad]

@hopskipandjump I know exactly what the big issue is here. The fact that no one is willing to do anything productive about it besides complain is actually part of the problem.

For this issue I'll make it simple: ask the teams affected to formally request a response from the Disciplinary Committee or International Sanctioning Commitee. I don't think anyone has done that yet.

Or you can all do that but I am not sure if that will get a response.

 

[cheer8]

Individually you all have good points and valid opinions, but there is no reason why you should expect the USASF (or any governing body) to give you an answer to why anything happened or how they will\will not correct a situation.

Collectively, all the member athletes, coaches and owners have a voice.

I disagree with you... A great governing body will tell you when they made a mistake as Les did, then the Governing body will explain how they are going to fix it which has not been done. I EXPECT

 

[SharkDad]

I agree with your ideal.

Can you find me a statement anywhere that the USASF promises to do what you EXPECT?

 

[King]

The issue being the way the award was given there was no affected team placement. If Bangkok got an inflation from 3rd to 1st (which would explain the lack of 3rd place in a 1st place tie, lack of scoresheets, messup of announcement of places, confusion by everyone... the list goes on?) then everyone ended up the exact same as if they didn't receive first.

The only teams truly affected would be the OTHER international teams that unintentionally used more than 12 boys and either did or did not get called for the infraction. Would other teams placements have been adjusted?

The other issue is that we are truly all affected, but it is a lose lose situation to argue over it. How does gym owner A that does not have a IOC6 team argue that Bangkok should have been infracted? It seems petty on his part that he has something against Bangkok. The trouble is it truly weakens peoples view and perception of the USASF and opens the door for MORE paranoia and falsities about what goes on in our sport. A false first to push an agenda has little short term affect (people smart enough to get it get pissed off) but more it unsettles the foundation of what will happen in the future. Know a gym that is cheating? Why tell the USASF if you believe they just do what they want. It weakens the fabric of what we are trying to create. And, next year, when Bangkok competes again what is the first thing you are going to do? Count the number of boys on the floor. IF with 12 boys their routine isnt half as great as this year you will always just say they won because they were allowed to have more boys. If they call them on all the illegal stuff next year you will just say they won this year because they were allowed to compete illegal moves. Or if they ARENT called on anything next year than a negative vibe will burn because people will say the USASF allows them to do illegal stuff because they fly along way to be here. This isn't a win win for anyone.

 

[cheer8]

I agree with your ideal.

Can you find me a statement anywhere that the USASF promises to do what you EXPECT?

My payment to be in this governing body... If I am a paying customer I need answers just like a kid paying the gym. wether good or bad you have to give an answer to the customers. Thats called Good Business... Not answering and leaving everyone hanging is Bad business.

 

[SharkDad]

@kingston I agree. The most applicable statement in there is that teams affected directly affected by this decision have the most right to ask for clarification and/or correction to sitution.

You had a team in the division, will you and the other teams get together to request a response?

 

[SharkDad]

My payment to be in this governing body... If I am a paying customer I need answers just like a kid paying the gym. wether good or bad you have to give an answer to the customers. Thats called Good Business... Not answering and leaving everyone hanging is Bad business.

Again, I agree. So if you don't like the way a business handled a situation, what are you going to do to get it remedied?

How far has discussing it on a message board gotten you besides more people being aggravated? (which isnt always bad)

 

[King]

@kingston I agree. The most applicable statement in there is that teams affected directly affected by this decision have the most right to ask for clarification and/or correction to sitution.

You had a team in the division, will you and the other teams get together to request a response?

I have debated this for a while. First, I was more affected by the misguidance in the application of the scoresheet and how it was used by the judges in my final placement than whatever happened in finals. I am still a bit flustered by that, to say the least. And as long as that hangs out like an elephant in the room I don't know if I can make a complaint without seeming to have an ulterior motive.

I am mostly frustrated because I thought we had come farther than this. I thought where cheer was is better because of the USASF because it is above all the nonsense, and, at the end of the day, didn't have to care if it pissed off customers because it did what was right and fair and that is what made the competition worth it. But, alas, it is not. And my thoughts on this competition and the objective will go away tainted. Remember, this is an organization I WANT to work and succeed. So to say I am... well.. just plain disappointed in what happened is pretty right on. What else can I say?

 

[cheer8]

Again, I agree. So if you don't like the way a business handled a situation, what are you going to do to get it remedied?

How far has discussing it on a message board gotten you besides more people being aggravated? (which isnt always bad)

Discussing it on the board is a great way to get views and see if your view is the same as the people who have the same passions... where in this thread I think it is a majority on what view everyone has got stuck in their head right now. I also talk to Coaches around the US and NC Alliance is in the making so there is a lot of talk about this situation even off the boards...

Like I said before I am FOR the USASF and Now when I go to conferences such as Doral. I can now back up why I KNOW it is wrong if the governing body does not do anything about this. It is called TRUST... We all learn this when we are children and moves into friendship, relationships etc... If people have trust issues they will start splitting and we will all be back at square one and I DONT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN. I was here before USASF and we had to change our routine for every competition we went to b/c of different rules. So please make people trust you USASF

Also you are saying it should be the right of the people that competed against them in that div. to speak up and say something... I think yes...
but it is the voice of us all that are apart of the USASF that will make the difference happen.