All-Star Transgender Athletes?

[BowsnBling]

Some interesting reading, so here is my two cents......There are a few states where there must be more than two boys on the team in order to compete as Co-ed. so to the person that said they do not see the advantage with one male on the team....I agree with you; there is no advantage having one male on the team....Would we be having this conversation if this individual was a flyer?
Though I do not see this as an issue, I do understand that many will have concerns, and lets face it, someone will take a straight male and put him in a skirt to cheat. that being said, this subject does need to be discussed and hopefully the decisions made will be in the best interest of our sons and daughters.....jmo

I agree that it does need to be discussed. I do believe that from and EP's point of view they will have to go off of legal facts of someones gender or else they open up to a whole new can of worms. Many people may answer questions like this with their hearts but ep's need to use their heads.

 

[FamousxMindset]

So basically there is a chance of me being on f5? IM FOR IT!

 

[Callmeboots]

I agree that it does need to be discussed. I do believe that from and EP's point of view they will have to go off of legal facts of someones gender or else they open up to a whole new can of worms. Many people may answer questions like this with their hearts but ep's need to use their heads.

Exactly, because if they deny someone the right to compete as the gender they're identified as they could be opening up for a lawsuit. These issues are so much bigger than cheerleading and could affect this child for their entire life.

I would rather a few people be pissed off because of them not understanding that a MTF transgender is female, than this child being affected for life because the one place they might feel safe isn't so safe for their identity anymore.

 

[BowsnBling]

Exactly, because if they deny someone the right to compete as the gender they're identified as they could be opening up for a lawsuit. These issues are so much bigger than cheerleading and could affect this child for their entire life.

I would rather a few people be pissed off because of them not understanding that a MTF transgender is female, than this child being affected for life because the one place they might feel safe isn't so safe for their identity anymore.

Correct me if I am wrong but identifying as and being are two separate things and they would have to go with what is legally on a birth certificate or ID I think.

 

[flipmac]

I do not see how this affects EP's but rather gyms.... is it not up to the gym to decide which divisions they enter? i feel like gym owners would know the athlete on a much more personal level, and therefore know where they feel best competing (coed vs all girl)

starts to get REAL messy when other people may challenge the division they have entered though

 

[callmecoach]

I do not see how this affects EP's but rather gyms.... is it not up to the gym to decide which divisions they enter? i feel like gym owners would know the athlete on a much more personal level, and therefore know where they feel best competing (coed vs all girl)

starts to get REAL messy when other people may challenge the division they have entered though

It affects EP's the same as any rule. It's not for gym owners to decide the age brackets or appropriate skills for each division or level. The same applies here.

It seems like everyone is trying to look at this as a situation with lots of gray area, which it is in life. But like it or not, it's pretty black and white when it comes to cheerleading. EP's would have no choice but to go by legal gender; otherwise they would be opening up some huge political and emotional cans of worms.

 

[CheerBank]

I only got about 5 deep in this conversation but came across your post and the comment of 'I would hope she' stopped me. She is not a she in the physical sense or the legal sense, so until that would get ironed out I don't see how the athlete should be able to register as a female. I think it should go off of whatever is on their ID.

I would always refer to the transgender person by the identity they have chosen, hence my calling our hypothetical MTF a "she". I do however understand your point about the athlete having to register as their legal gender and that would probably have to be the sticking point so nothing was left open to interpretation on either side.

 

[ShutItDown]

That's actually a legitimate question in my mind, not cheer related but my recent high school reunion...one of our classmates is under going the surgeries to change from female to male and is mid-process. They had a significant issue not knowing which restroom they should use. They ended up going home.

Heck, even my pronoun use here...I'm not sure what to refer to them as. I knew her as a "she" but that's not the case anymore and she prefers to be a he...so it's difficult because I don't want to say the wrong thing...and I'm not sure what the right thing is.

I guess in this case, it's maybe whatever they are registered as. So whatever they identify with at their home gym when they pay registration fees? Don't know. Any EPs out there that can tell us how you do it?

my RA at school went through the same thing, and I when I met her it was a she then the following year it was a he. They really go through a lot I have a lot of respect for anyone who goes through that.

 

[njallday]

my RA at school went through the same thing, and I when I met her it was a she then the following year it was a he. They really go through a lot I have a lot of respect for anyone who goes through that.

you just said you have respect for these people, so I'm sure you do and not being rude, but i just really can't stand calling a human being "it" regardless of any circumstance.

carry on :)

 

[redsmom]

Gender Identity and Sport - LawNow

Apparently the the CCAA (Canadian Collegiate Athletic Association in Canada) follows the same policy at the NCAA and the OFSAA (Ontario Federation of School Athletic Associations) has a group looking into instituting a similar policy at the high school level.

 

[Ashley]

Correct me if I am wrong but identifying as and being are two separate things and they would have to go with what is legally on a birth certificate or ID I think.

I'm pretty sure that's not true - especially if we're talking post-op and years of hormone therapy. I'm not sure what the competitive advantage would be then. When you no longer have the levels of testosterone that makes do, you really don't have any advantage over women.

And generally when you refer to a transgendered person, you use the pronoun of the gender they identify with. There was an issue in MA with a MTF transgender inmate and it killed me that the newspapers would user her new name, but use the "he" pronoun. She is no longer a he and shouldn't be called as such. And again, keep in mind that sex and gender are two different things. While someone's sex may be male, their gender might be female.

We actually had a transgender athlete try out for our college (all-girl) team. It worked out that she didn't have the skills to make the team, but it would have been a very real issue.

 

[CheerBank]

I'm pretty sure that's not true - especially if we're talking post-op and years of hormone therapy. I'm not sure what the competitive advantage would be then. When you no longer have the levels of testosterone that makes do, you really don't have any advantage over women.

And generally when you refer to a transgendered person, you use the pronoun of the gender they identify with. There was an issue in MA with a MTF transgender inmate and it killed me that the newspapers would user her new name, but use the "he" pronoun. She is no longer a he and shouldn't be called as such. And again, keep in mind that sex and gender are two different things. While someone's sex may be male, their gender might be female.

We actually had a transgender athlete try out for our college (all-girl) team. It worked out that she didn't have the skills to make the team, but it would have been a very real issue.

I think you brought up the gray area of what part they are in with regard to their transition. And can't sex be legally changed? I'm pretty sure i read that Chaz Bono's birth certificate was legally changed to male. And agree 100% about the pronouns.

 

[Ashley]

I think you brought up the gray area of what part they are in with regard to their transition. And can't sex be legally changed? I'm pretty sure i read that Chaz Bono's birth certificate was legally changed to male. And agree 100% about the pronouns.

Yeah you might be right. But a woman just starting to undergo the transition would probably still have an M for sex.

I saw an article that mentioned this for the NCAA - not sure if its one of the same articles someone else linked to. There are no official rules, but I think this is their recommendation, which I think is fair.

It's really not as black and white as some people are trying to make it to be, especially since most advantages come down to hormones, which can be fixed.

"For those undergoing hormone treatments, the report recommends that a male-to-female transgender athlete should be able to participate on men's teams, but should complete one year of hormone treatments before competing on a women's team. The report recommends that a female-to-male transgender athlete, who is taking prescribed testosterone, should be allowed to compete on men's teams, but must seek an exemption to NCAA rules barring the use of testosterone.

Read more: Transgender Athletes, College Teams | Inside Higher Ed
Inside Higher Ed "

 

[callmecoach]

It's really not as black and white as some people are trying to make it to be, especially since most advantages come down to hormones, which can be fixed.

A transgender athlete that has undergone surgery, hormone treatment and the legal changing of their sex is a different story. They are then legally female. That will rarely be the case in allstar cheer since most athletes involved are minors. The aspects of this issue that are black and white are biology and law. If you are biologically and legally male, you can't be on a female team, even if you identify as female. Not because anyone wants to discriminate, but because there are rules in place, and like BowsnBling stated before, identifying and being are two very different things. EP's, gym owners, coaches--none of these people have the ability or authority to decide when and why a transgender athlete should be allowed on a certain team based on any factor other than legal, biological sex.

 

[Ashley]

A transgender athlete that has undergone surgery, hormone treatment and the legal changing of their sex is a different story. They are then legally female. That will rarely be the case in allstar cheer since most athletes involved are minors. The aspects of this issue that are black and white are biology and law. If you are biologically and legally male, you can't be on a female team, even if you identify as female. Not because anyone wants to discriminate, but because there are rules in place, and like BowsnBling stated before, identifying and being are two very different things. EP's, gym owners, coaches--none of these people have the ability or authority to decide when and why a transgender athlete should be allowed on a certain team based on any factor other than legal, biological sex.

Science has shown that a pre-op transgendered person has very little, if any advantage, if they've been taking hormones for over a year. At that point, it doesn't matter what sexual organs you have, you have no advantage over a female athlete.

Unfortunately, until the USASF has a rule about transgendered athletes, it is absolutely up to those people to decide which team that athlete should be on. It's psychologically damaging to that athlete to force them to count as a male on a coed team if they've been taking hormones and living as a female for an extended period of time.

And even biology isn't as black as white as you'd think. People can be born intersex.