All-Star Usasf Proposed Rule Changes For 22-23

[Emily]

Yes! Summit has raised the bar.

Something I’ve noticed in Summit teams in the past years is that as the bar gets raised, you almost have to be a level ABOVE the team’s level to make the team and be successful on it.

For example, to make a Summit-winning Senior 1, you probably need to basically be a level 2 athlete.

Sort of like when schools have required minimum skills. It might require a BHS, but it is beyond required when everyone in the tryout pool has a tuck.

These proposed changes are going to further promote that (Which has some pros and cons.)

There almost needs to be a true beginner type event specifically for kids who don’t have those experiences.

Like a prep or rec version or starter version of regional Summit if you will.

Even those "true beginner type events" will soon have teams there that are far too advanced because gyms want to win.
You can't influence which kids make what team at the gym level, therefore gyms can continue to put level 3 athletes on a beginner level 1 team just to up their chances of winning.

 

[catlady]

Even those "true beginner type events" will soon have teams there that are far too advanced because gyms want to win.
You can't influence which kids make what team at the gym level, therefore gyms can continue to put level 3 athletes on a beginner level 1 team just to up their chances of winning.

Our kid's coach would ask us, "What is the difference between a level 2 and level 3,4, or 5 athlete performing a good bhs?" Not really the question you want to be asked when you're wanting your child's head grazing running tuck to make the level 3 team next year, but his point was valid. All other competitive sports build their teams from the top down and with the most proficient athletes. It makes more sense from building skill depth to reducing injuries when you compete proficient athletes instead of competing beginners in each level. The new difference, is beginners in all levels are now learning behind the scenes and are expected to have skill depth and good technique before making the next level team. Every other competitive sport does this, and honestly, AS was the only place we could find for my kid's to compete as 14 year old beginner athletes. Bittersweet.

 

[CoachTamara]

Honestly, the more I think about it the more I do believe we need more levels, but we should be expanding on the bottom, not the top. I don't think it's ten/twelve levels like gymnastics, but prep and novice just should be incorporated into real levels rather than a different "outsider" division. There does need to be more space for beginners, but I'm not sure how to deal with the "win at costs, must level everyone down" either... In gymnastics you can stop this because it is an individual sport, but it gets much more complicated with teams and gyms.

 

[catlady]

Honestly, the more I think about it the more I do believe we need more levels, but we should be expanding on the bottom, not the top. I don't think it's ten/twelve levels like gymnastics, but prep and novice just should be incorporated into real levels rather than a different "outsider" division. There does need to be more space for beginners, but I'm not sure how to deal with the "win at costs, must level everyone down" either... In gymnastics you can stop this because it is an individual sport, but it gets much more complicated with teams and gyms.

I agree, expansion at the bottom would be ideal. Level 2 and 3 junior divisions are consistently very large. With full team elite skills becoming the norm, I could easily see level 1-3 basic/elite skills divided and made into Beginner, 1,2, and 3. From solely a business perspective, however, I don't know if expanding at the bottom would provide gym owners enough additional income to offset the possible additional expense in time slots and coaches that might be needed.

As far as expanding at the top, unlike other sports, in AS cheer you basically age out and either make a college team or stop cheering. Expansion at the top would help them retain some of that lost income, would possibly help smaller gyms retain their higher level athletes, as well as, expanded older athlete population equals expanded free marketing via SM for gyms and the industry.

 

[JBS]

This really is a super interesting discussion and the more I read it... the more it seems like there are similar issues in most youth sports in general.

 

[The_Ace_Of_Base(ing)]

I don’t like the idea of adding BHS to level 1, but I do like the idea of making standing and running skills the same at each level, ie level 2 running and standing series BHS, level three running tuck snd standing BHS to tuck.

No one has brought up the D1/D2 classification changes… thoughts? Some big name gyms have recently franchised gyms that may not make D1 if calculated by athletes at the location.

So you may have some of the smaller CA, Stingrays, etc. locations competing as D2?

 

[UCFKnights07]

i feel like the Non tumbling division will eventually be moved out of worlds, maybe to summit or something on its own. im still 50/50, its been nice to see the division progress in difficulty and creativity, but i still feel like there is a lot of push back on non tumbling being a worlds division. Id also hate to see the xs divisions be moved, replaced, etc. though, so hoping they are a worlds division for the long haul. I have thoroughly enjoyed their addition.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Summit is way over crowded. Worlds has lots of room. I’d be surprised if they do that.

 

[Knowcheering]

How long will it be fun for kids to compete against themselves at many competitions? It used to be that only in Level 6 you would see uncontested teams because of how much talent is required to excel at that level. But now it's trickled into every level. I know someone who's competing at Spirit Cheer Nationals in Florida this week. 20 of the divisions have 1 team in them-- that's not a Nationals, that's an exhibition. You might get a thrill if you win Grand Champs, but if you're not up for that, I could see how kids might lose interest after a while. There's too much emphasis on one competition, Summit, and not enough on the rest of the year. These U divisions and all this D1/D2 stuff is killing the lower levels at some competitions.

And as others have mentioned, there's no place for beginners who want a normal All Star experience and don't want to travel all around the country chasing Summit bids, not even in Level 1. You could join a Prep team, but those divisions often go uncontested too because everyone else in chasing bids.

 

[Knowcheering]

Our kid's coach would ask us, "What is the difference between a level 2 and level 3,4, or 5 athlete performing a good bhs?"

A higher level athlete whose been doing BHS for years might be able to do a BHS more effortlessly than a Level 2 who just mastered theirs this past summer. Many a time I watch a routine and can identify a higher level kid on there. Sometimes they blend in more, but other times it's obvious. The great boy tumblers who do Level 4 teams; they look so out of place.

Aside from that, it's easier to have the numbers and full-team skills when your Level 2 team isn't just for your Level 2 athletes, it's also for Level 3 crossovers and kids who probably could handle Level 3 but are instead held back in 2. All for the sake of one competition, the Summit. It's not that I hate Summit, I just see the drawbacks of having it. But there are pluses and minuses in everything.

 

[cheermomforever]

See also:

The proposed rule changes effectively add a skill in standing tumbling to most levels.

For example, you’d be able to standing tumble to a layout in L4 when it used to be a tuck.

Or now standing tumble to full in L5 instead of just to layout.

That sound you just heard was the collective concern of everybody who is (this close) to leveling up potentially not doing so if their running tumbling is not progressing as quickly as their standing. Because you could in general get away with being a step behind in standing before. (Example: You could have a running layout and still be at standing tuck and still make J4.)

Add to it kids who due to age grid changes have been on same teams for a little bit and are anxious to move on. (Ex: If you’ve been on J4 for a couple of seasons and the next leap for you is S5.)

Level 4 was a layout and level 5 was a full for standing tumbling a few years ago before the rule changed.

 

[cheermomforever]

Technique is one thing I believe Summit has helped tremendously. The 2017 team is one of the last Summit level 1 teams I watched in person. While it's a slow routine, their technique was incredible, and they set the bar incredibly high. They are the reason I don't think it's far fetched for a lot of the current competitive level 1 teams to have athletes with bhs's. The 2013 team was incredible for 2013, but it shows what happened to the technique bar in just four years:

2017


2013

Wow the 2017 team……great team

 

[dat.jpp]

Since dreams have meaning, what does it mean if you have a dream about competing on the Worlds mat (the Worlds mat in my dream was dead mat)
Maybe it means the future of cheerleading may change and follow suit and compete dead mat to mirror ICU (and hopefully the Olympics) in the future?

 

[luv2cheer92]

Since dreams have meaning, what does it mean if you have a dream about competing on the Worlds mat (the Worlds mat in my dream was dead mat)
Maybe it means the future of cheerleading may change and follow suit and compete dead mat to mirror ICU (and hopefully the Olympics) in the future?

I definitely don't see the sport moving backwards in regards to safety of the athletes.

 

[cac4life]

Since dreams have meaning, what does it mean if you have a dream about competing on the Worlds mat (the Worlds mat in my dream was dead mat)
Maybe it means the future of cheerleading may change and follow suit and compete dead mat to mirror ICU (and hopefully the Olympics) in the future?

I really hope not…in hs cheer I compete on a dead mat and it is hell on my ankles and back…and I’m not throwing nearly as hard of skills that level 6 athletes are throwing now. It would be such a step backwards to go to dead mat in so many ways. We would have to make the sport easier yet more dangerous…. Doesn’t make much sense to me