All-Star Varsity Scoring Update: Squad Tumbling - 75% = 100%

[Supermom]

I'm not saying I approve of fakes either. I think if you don't have the skill you should be used somewhere else in the routine. I'm not saying everyone on a team needs to have JUST tumbling skills. I'm just saying you should be given credit for the CLEAN, LANDED, SAFE tumbling skills that you do have.

 

[NEliteSteven]

I'm not sure we would have chosen teams much different, maybe an exception here or there, but- Why do these always come out at the worst times? It's no surprise that majority of gyms are already done with tryouts. There's a chance we would have made a few exceptions here and there to make sure our stunting was a lot stronger. The nicest part about this especially for my level 3 team is not having to have a lot of kids throwing: round off tucks, specialty running, jumps+ multiple handsprings, punch fronts, and then handspring stepouts to tuck. And still not completely maxing out on difficulty....How exhausting.

 

[Rudags]

I'm not sure we would have chosen teams much different, maybe an exception here or there, but- Why do these always come out at the worst times? It's no surprise that majority of gyms are already done with tryouts. There's a chance we would have made a few exceptions here and there to make sure our stunting was a lot stronger. The nicest part about this especially for my level 3 team is not having to have a lot of kids throwing: round off tucks, specialty running, jumps+ multiple handsprings, punch fronts, and then handspring stepouts to tuck. And still not completely maxing out on difficulty....How exhausting.

Agreed. Completely annoying. I know a Texas gym had to REDO their entire tryout placements due to when the rules about 10 year old cap came out!

 

[drewpate]

I think they will always pick teams to be as close to 100% as possible, but now have a bit of flexibility. The one girl out of squad jumps or tumbling isn't as detrimental as it used to be.

Though I do think all things being equal and if two teams throw the exact same routine except one has 75% and one has 100% the 100% will have an advantage.

I agree and was thinking on the way home about it and as judges are human, I don't think that 75 will ever equal 100 truly, no matter how well trained the judges are to the scoresheet. Plus they can always reward you in one of the more subjective areas of the scoresheet.

I still wish there was a clear way to reward squad tumbling, even if to a much lesser degree. Ie in level 2 squad skills above that levels minimum (bwo bhs) gets a .1 bonus added to the score. Not perfect but I'm just throwing ideas out.

 

[King]

I agree and was thinking on the way home about it and as judges are human, I don't think that 75 will ever equal 100 truly, no matter how well trained the judges are to the scoresheet. Plus they can always reward you in one of the more subjective areas of the scoresheet.

I still wish there was a clear way to reward squad tumbling, even if to a much lesser degree. Ie in level 2 squad skills above that levels minimum (bwo bhs) gets a .1 bonus added to the score. Not perfect but I'm just throwing ideas out.

There is. Difficulty cannot be done live and by the same person that does execution. It must be done by video afterwards.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Since there are two of these and going two different directions, I get to voice twice as many opinions, HUZZAH!

USASF- you wanna make more money? Bring. Back. THE REC. Make rec divisions more of the fun track but still working/learning/competing, and make allstar the still fun but a bit more competitive track. In EVERY sport I've done, there are not only different levels, but different levels of competition. I did comp gymnastics at YMCA, as opposed to a place like WOGA. My volleyball had different allstar levels based on skill/time commitment. Different AAU basketball teams were based on skill/commitment, soccer teams were different, etc. I think as many kids find that 'pressure' (which is what highly competitive people like myself called 'drive':P) to be too much, as many kids TOTALLY dig that push for new, more, better, stronger, etc. THOSE are the kids making it to the upper tiers. Those are your Maddie Gardners, your Kelsey Rules, your Kiaras, your Holdens, you Bucky and Tyes.

Also- has nobody considered the obvious? TEENAGE GIRLS?!?! By the time some kids get to high school, they want to try different things. I did the same 3 sports 'til 5th grade, then I dropped ALL of them. And it wasn't because I wasn't progressing (I was) or that they weren't fun anymore (they were), I just wanted to try new things. HS girls want their weekends back to hang out with their non-cheer friends and party. They want to try volleyball or soccer. They want to do something different. Might them not excelling be a small factor? Sure. But I don't think you're losing them over skills in the majority. I think you're losing them over the 'Ok, I've done this for so long and I want to try something new!' Also- for all those girls who've left for a year because 'It's not fun.' How many of them have come back?

 

[drewpate]

I think they will always pick teams to be as close to 100% as possible, but now have a bit of flexibility. The one girl out of squad jumps or tumbling isn't as detrimental as it used to be.

Though I do think all things being equal and if two teams throw the exact same routine except one has 75% and one has 100% the 100% will have an advantage.

I agree and was thinking on the way home about it and as judges are human, I don't think that 75 will ever equal 100 truly, no matter how well trained the judges are to the scoresheet. Plus they can always reward you in one of the more subjective areas of the scoresheet.

I still wish there was a clear way to reward squad tumbling, even if to a much lesser degree. Ie in level 2 squad skills above that levels minimum (bwo bhs) gets a .1 bonus added to the score. Not perfect but I'm just throwing ideas out.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Isn't the Jam scoresheet already set up similar? I know we have maxed out at least the quantity portion of our tumbling portion of our scoresheet without full squad tumbling.

I like this because I would rather see the teams with beautiful execution be rewarded over sheer numbers. Because lets face it, it is pretty rare to have perfect full squad tumbling technique, and probably at most levels there are probably a few on a "full squad tumbling team" that maybe shouldn't be throwing a skill just yet.

But outside of the scoring, my thoughts are probably based on the fact that I would rather see more perfection before progression in tumbling. Don't start my kid on a tuck when her back handspring is still not perfect. I have heard / seen a few advanced tumblers who are having issues with more elite tumbling skills and it comes back to having a roundoff or back handspring that isn't quite right.

 

[bestbackspot]

Looking at it from USASF standpoints, they're just trying to curve injuries, and we all know that injuries are terrible. So maybe this will be a good thing for all those girls that are forced to throw a scary skill (I know we've all been one of them at one point). It'll also give teams a little more creativity. i say fierce stunt in the back during the jumptucks? i think yes :)

 

[cheerfan27]

I don't agree. Tumbling is just getting pushed back farther. I think 100% squad tumbling should score higher then 50 or 75 % or whatever percent . I think keeping 100% squad participation it helps put athletes on teams based on skill level and since you asked I hope you are listening.

 

[Mom Jeans]

If 75% = 100% of clean tumbling then I look forward to it, I have only seen a few, very few teams where the % matches the technique

 

[ASCheerMan]

I'll stand by my opinion that this isn't NEARLY the earth shattering change it's being given credit for. A lot of the judging already reflected this philosophy. To address the timing concerns: the scoring system is still in the stages of being finalized and won't be released for at least a few weeks. It hit me yesterday that this one point could affect tryouts and deserved an early release as most of the other changes being made to the system only affect routine choreography and could await the official roll out of this year's system. I apologize that we weren't able to share it earlier, although I imagine that most gyms who stacked their teams with full squad skills are still going to reap the benefit of this announcement. We all know that rosters aren't going to remain the same. Injuries occur, athletes move and are replaced, and teams change divisions for one reason or another--all of these standard challenges are going to be less of a headache for everyone.

 

[ASCheerMan]

Since there are two of these and going two different directions, I get to voice twice as many opinions, HUZZAH!

USASF- you wanna make more money? Bring. Back. THE REC. Make rec divisions more of the fun track but still working/learning/competing, and make allstar the still fun but a bit more competitive track. In EVERY sport I've done, there are not only different levels, but different levels of competition. I did comp gymnastics at YMCA, as opposed to a place like WOGA. My volleyball had different allstar levels based on skill/time commitment. Different AAU basketball teams were based on skill/commitment, soccer teams were different, etc. I think as many kids find that 'pressure' (which is what highly competitive people like myself called 'drive':p) to be too much, as many kids TOTALLY dig that push for new, more, better, stronger, etc. THOSE are the kids making it to the upper tiers. Those are your Maddie Gardners, your Kelsey Rules, your Kiaras, your Holdens, you Bucky and Tyes.

Kristen, you ARE great as there is a USASF Announcement re: All Star Prep (All Star Rec) coming soon.

 

[ASCheerMan]

oh wow!! no answer either huh?? that's what irritates me the most. we don't do any varsity events, but this would make me steer from it, especially being a small gym.

Mandy, I can't tell if your post was in direct reference to me not addressing @JulieP's frustration on the board or not. JulieP, I'd be more than happy to review your situation with you, as I assume you are referencing the results at a single event that you didn't understand. We can discuss that one on one (when I send you your shirt, btw), but one of two following explanations is likely to be the accurate conclusion:

1. Your squad participation may have been beaten by a team with less than full squad participation IF that team performed a skill that the judges deemed more difficult than the skill you performed and/or if they performed more additional standing tumbling skills throughout their routine than you did in your routine. Since the score is an overall 'Difficulty' score and not a "Participation Score" the Score you received may not be a direct reflection of level of participation.

The other possible explanation is:

2. The judges got it wrong.

 

[NCMom]

Maybe the judges will be overly impressed with the Squad tumbling and give them the edge in overall impression

I thought this as well. Even if in the tumbling section 75% and 100% get the same scoring I cant help but think that an overall impression will be higher with a team of 100%.