All-Star Well Now What Are We Are We Supposed To Talk About.

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Oct 20, 2013
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The USASF Open divisions are new. That hasn't been an option previously. I hate the massive number of divisions we have now, but we absolutely will send more and more teams toward the USASF side when possible. Few events award paid bids in "International" divisions, so paid bids in those divisions are much harder to come by. Also, I think paid bids are generally harder to get than people think. We regularly see more defending medalists competing than there are bids at an event.

Olympics is set up as a country-vs-country event. You represent your country there. It makes sense. (FWIW, I don't love the rule in gymnastics that limits the all-around finalists).

In my mind, it should be more like Wimbledon, Tour de France, Boston Marathon, Australian Open, Ironman, etc. where athletes/teams represent either themselves or their private clubs. There are no rules that say the Wimbledon finalists can't be two Russians. You could have the top 10 Boston Marathon finishers all be Kenyan and no one would bat an eye.

I get the other side and I can respect that view, however. I just don't see it that way.
Yeah, I get it, and I didn't mean to sound so salty. I'm just getting tired of the discussion, and a lot of people having no empathy or understanding of that international teams actually go through to get to worlds.

But all those events aren't world championships and crown world champions. All world championships I know about has a limit on the number of participants. Even say cross country skiing, where the athletes compete and win as their own, not really their country, has a
4(/5, if you are the reigning world champ you get a free spot) per country rule. Even for the world cup there's a maximum quota of 6 athletes per race.

We are still a young sport, and there are for sure kinks to iron out, but having limits on the amount of teams allowed to move on is not that far fetched.

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May 18, 2011
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Yeah, I get it, and I didn't mean to sound so salty. I'm just getting tired of the discussion, and a lot of people having no empathy or understanding of that international teams actually go through to get to worlds.

But all those events aren't world championships and crown world champions. All world championships I know about has a limit on the number of participants. Even say cross country skiing, where the athletes compete and win as their own, not really their country, has a
4(/5, if you are the reigning world champ you get a free spot) per country rule. Even for the world cup there's a maximum quota of 6 athletes per race.

We are still a young sport, and there are for sure kinks to iron out, but having limits on the amount of teams allowed to move on is not that far fetched.

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Gymnastics for event finals/all around is another example if I'm not mistaken
 
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Oh wow no one told Global News...I just turned on the news and they're airing a story on this in 10 minutes
 
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quitthedrama

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Literally wtf.

I'm sorry but I do not agree that this was the correct decision. And it makes me wonder where USASF/IASF's backbone is. The SECOND they get put under pressure they fold? Hey, Brandon coaches, y'all better hop on board and seek repercussions now too.

Not only this but they've taken so many globing moments away from athletes from one eff up after another. What are they actually doing? Who is even running this? One scoring mistake is an honest mistake. Multiple scoring mistakes is not a mistake. Maybe USASF should step down from being an EP for a weekend and focus on enforcing rules. Because they clearly can't do both at the same time.

How many peoples money have they wasted this weekend?
Yes to all of this. And rewatching performances in a few divisions where it was questionable that teams made finals I counted far more deductions than were assessed in semi-finals. In two situations the teams would not have made finals if they had been given the correct deductions.
I'm not a judge but even I know darn well what a stunt fall and tumble bust is and I can match that up to the number of points the correlating deduction is and do the math. If I can do that correctly, there is no reason why a judging panel can't do the same.
 

BlueCat

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Yes to all of this. And rewatching performances in a few divisions where it was questionable that teams made finals I counted far more deductions than were assessed in semi-finals. In two situations the teams would not have made finals if they had been given the correct deductions.
I'm not a judge but even I know darn well what a stunt fall and tumble bust is and I can match that up to the number of points the correlating deduction is and do the math. If I can do that correctly, there is no reason why a judging panel can't do the same.
There are always perceived scoring/deduction/legality/process mistakes at events. Event producers are human. This particular one, however, had an EXTREMELY high number of significant mistakes given the number of performances there were.
 
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In my mind, it should be more like Wimbledon, Tour de France, Boston Marathon, Australian Open, Ironman, etc. where athletes/teams represent either themselves or their private clubs. There are no rules that say the Wimbledon finalists can't be two Russians. You could have the top 10 Boston Marathon finishers all be Kenyan and no one would bat an eye.

This makes a lot of sense to me, especially in light of ICU getting provisional Olympic status. In light of another body moving down the Olympic route, it would make more sense for Worlds to function more like a competition that attracts international competition, but isn't specifically a country-vs-country competition.
 
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A statement from Brandon owners. They make two good points:

1) If you’re correcting the mistake, actually correct it instead of arbitrarily naming two World Champs when they have different scores.

2) OR - don’t break the other tie. Sounds like Brandon handled it very appropriately and professionally explaining to their team that the tie had to be broken. If there indeed can be co-Champs, then two teams with the same score absolutely should be.


 
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A statement from Brandon owners. They make two good points:

1) If you’re correcting the mistake, actually correct it instead of arbitrarily naming two World Champs when they have different scores.

2) OR - don’t break the other tie. Sounds like Brandon handled it very appropriately and professionally explaining to their team that the tie had to be broken. If there indeed can be co-Champs, then two teams with the same score absolutely should be.



If Brandon gets there’s changed then I’d be expecting something to happen with Stingray Apple and Cheers and More Respect as they had a tie for Bronze broken too.
 
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I so much want Worlds to be a great event, but it can be so disappointing at times.

What do you guys think of the 3-per-country rule at USASF/IASF Worlds? (Geography playing a role in determining who advances to finals). (NOT whether you think it was implemented correctly, just whether it should be a thing in the first place.)

I think they need to have a minimum score to get into finals, I’m sorry but a team scoring 25 out of a possible 150 and still progressing to finals whilst other incredible teams who are in the top end of the score sheet can’t because of the 3 teams per country. There should be a minimum score and those that don’t meet it don’t get through to finals period.
 

BlueCat

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I think they need to have a minimum score to get into finals, I’m sorry but a team scoring 25 out of a possible 150 and still progressing to finals whilst other incredible teams who are in the top end of the score sheet can’t because of the 3 teams per country. There should be a minimum score and those that don’t meet it don’t get through to finals period.

Even better - a team with a NEGATIVE score got in over teams scoring in the 100s. I have been doing this a long time, and have never seen an actual negative score before.
 

luv2cheer92

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Even better - a team with a NEGATIVE score got in over teams scoring in the 100s. I have been doing this a long time, and have never seen an actual negative score before.
I'm still wondering why that team didn't go again Day 1. They had an injury about 5 seconds into the routine. The deduction from the fall/injury brought their score into the negative. Curious if they declined to go again because they knew they'd be moving on to Day 2 anyway or if there was another reason. They came back Day 2 and did pretty good and moved up a spot or two.
 

catlady

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I so much want Worlds to be a great event, but it can be so disappointing at times.

What do you guys think of the 3-per-country rule at USASF/IASF Worlds? (Geography playing a role in determining who advances to finals). (NOT whether you think it was implemented correctly, just whether it should be a thing in the first place.)

I think most people if asked this question would say medals should be earned by merit. With that said, I try to put myself in their shoes. It's not just not necessarily cost, but I think there's a distinct advantage to athletes when they're in their own country. Jet lag, new culture, economic differences, language barrier, anxiety of traveling, different food choices, missed school, lacking crowd support...these aren't created issues. What is the benefit of coming here if there isn't some type of handicap to allow players of different proficiency to compete together? I do believe we tend to look at AS as being a pretty developed sport, but it is truly still in infant stages when it comes to the rest of the World, minus perhaps Canada. Would the parents at your gym, or you, have any desire to spend the money and time to fly into Europe, perform 2.5 minutes, and fly out to get back to school? I'm not asking if it is professionally/competitively correct, I'm asking if you think you could get anyone to agree with that if you were developing the sport in your country and some type of handicap at the event wasn't allowed. Let's say a Jamaica, where the avg yearly salary is $13,000 versus the US where it's $55,000.
 

BlueCat

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I think most people if asked this question would say medals should be earned by merit. With that said, I try to put myself in their shoes. It's not just not necessarily cost, but I think there's a distinct advantage to athletes when they're in their own country. Jet lag, new culture, economic differences, language barrier, anxiety of traveling, different food choices, missed school, lacking crowd support...these aren't created issues. What is the benefit of coming here if there isn't some type of handicap to allow players of different proficiency to compete together? I do believe we tend to look at AS as being a pretty developed sport, but it is truly still in infant stages when it comes to the rest of the World, minus perhaps Canada. Would the parents at your gym, or you, have any desire to spend the money and time to fly into Europe, perform 2.5 minutes, and fly out to get back to school? I'm not asking if it is professionally/competitively correct, I'm asking if you think you could get anyone to agree with that if you were developing the sport in your country and some type of handicap at the event wasn't allowed. Let's say a Jamaica, where the avg yearly salary is $13,000 versus the US where it's $55,000.

If say, we had a new cricket team and an organization based in India wanted to bring an American team over to compete at their championships (I don't know enough about that sport to know how their "World Championship" works, so forgive me if I get details wrong) I would ask for, and even expect that organization to chip in and assist with travel costs. I could even see setting up extra games for us to play - maybe create an extra exhibition round or extra friendly matches before or after the main event. If there was a huge company that made a ton of money selling cricket equipment/uniforms behind the scenes that wanted cricket to grow in the US to help their global footprint, I would expect them to be paying for most of the cost of all of it.

I wouldn't expect them to overhaul their scoring system to help make up for differences in our experience level. I also wouldn't expect to get moved into the final match at the actual championship over teams that were markedly better than ours.
 
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Lisa Seye

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I'm still wondering why that team didn't go again Day 1. They had an injury about 5 seconds into the routine. The deduction from the fall/injury brought their score into the negative. Curious if they declined to go again because they knew they'd be moving on to Day 2 anyway or if there was another reason. They came back Day 2 and did pretty good and moved up a spot or two.
They did not have an alternate and the injured person was integral to the routine. I suppose they could have marked her spots and not had things go up. They had to rework the routine for the next day. All hearsay ;)
 
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