All-Star What Happened To The Basics?

[Eyes On The Prize]

YESSSS

Firm believer that every side base needs to look like this 100% of the time!!!!!!!!! As a backspot I literally could not stand stunting with a base that wouldn't get underneath right away. It makes SUCH a difference.

Yes, it makes a huge difference. Even when the stunt is struggling to stay up, it is easier since the stunt is in line with your body instead of out in front of you. Makes saving that stunt a lot easier and it uses a lot less energy/strength. It was always so much easier to push it back up when you were directly underneath.

 

[cheerKT]

I collect pictures of this.

I think in allstar (particularly level 5) it's more common to see transitions and moving in and out of stunts like this. I think that's why the bases share the weight more and don't always come chest to chest, since odds are two counts later they will be moving/spinning/power pressing/doubling/releasing/anything else. Whereas in school cheer, we were definitely more accustomed to just hitting the stunt and that being the end product. The main base was the primary weight barer, and the secondary base would control the movement of the foot and stand chest to chest, usually slightly turned forward.

 

[omgitssydthekid]

Wut.

We get TONS of young kids (and older kids too) with a round off tuck but not a round off backhandspring tuck (or even a round off backhandspring in some cases) from another gym that is close to ours. These kids also come in with really weak standing tumbling because they do not focus on backhandsprings at all [emoji58] its so frustrating because I feel like it's setting the kids up to be unsuccessful.


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[stcchamp]

I think a lot of it has to do with coaching. Many gyms put a huge emphasis on levels 4 and 5 and allow their levels 1-3 to be put on the back burner... The programs that keep those level 1s and 2s a priority, normally have great execution and technique in the upper levels, which then allows them to have more difficulty with great technique. Coaches have to remember that your level 1s will be your level 5s sooner or later. Don't put them on the back burner.

 

[Jule]

YESSSS

Firm believer that every side base needs to look like this 100% of the time!!!!!!!!! As a backspot I literally could not stand stunting with a base that wouldn't get underneath right away. It makes SUCH a difference.

Oh yeah, I know that tecnhique, too. We do it differently but I guess it's a matter of taste whether you want the main or the side underneath the stunt. As long as one of the bases is directly under the stunt and takes control, the rest can assist.
For us: we face each other and the main goes straight underneath the stunt, grabbing toes and heel, while the side gets in as close as possible and grabs in a variation of the hotdog/sandwich grip (I prefer not to hold the top of the foot but rather grab around the middle of the shoe for more control).
Main is responsible for most of the weight and not toeing/heeling the flyer. Side is responsible for not allowing the flyer's foot to go on her outer or inner side.
Backspot (of you have one) lifts and either grabs ankle & heel or ankle and somewhere near the side's hands underneath the foot or both hands on the ankle. :)

 

[Jule]

Like so (we're on the right hand side):

 

[catlady]

There's a little gymnastics place that many HS girls will go to before tryouts and the owner said it is very common for HS girls to have a standing tuck with no, or a very janky, bhs. She said, it is much easier to teach a standing tuck than a bhs that is worthy of connecting other skills to and since most HS's care more about full squad standing tucks, the bhs goes on the back burner.

As far as, bwo's, she will tell you that develops the flexibility in the back, shoulders, and develops core strength and makes it much easier to progress to a bhs. Again, she said it is the athletes and parents that put no importance on a bwo because, HS's don't require it and most AS gyms will put you on level 2 without it. She said it isn't because they are too old to learn a bwo, it is that they don't want to, in their opinion, waste a year on a skill they don't absolutely have to have. With that said, I am always surprised at how many athletes truly can't because of medical reasons (scoliosis, pins, discs, spinal fusions).

 

[caitlyn_the_camille]

Like so (we're on the right hand side):

There's something so satisfying about this picture omg
ETA especially that group on the left thought [emoji7]

 

[nicolee]

We get TONS of young kids (and older kids too) with a round off tuck but not a round off backhandspring tuck (or even a round off backhandspring in some cases) from another gym that is close to ours. These kids also come in with really weak standing tumbling because they do not focus on backhandsprings at all [emoji58] its so frustrating because I feel like it's setting the kids up to be unsuccessful.


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Oh hell no. That would irritate me to no end – backhandsprings are so important.

 

[Official OWECheer]

There's something so satisfying about this picture omg
ETA especially that group on the left thought [emoji7]

I thought I was the only one that felt that way.

 

[BuegeSmalls]

I hate when kids get back handsprings and then start learning tucks the next day. I feel like that's very common with HS cheer. I'm a strong believer that you need a pretty (legs closed, arms by ears, no under cutting) back handspring before moving on to a tuck.


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[ilikebigbows]

I personally was rushed from back handsprings straight into tucks at a young age, and what everybody is saying is certainly true. I struggled, and struggled HARD with tumbling because my fundamentals were sloppy, and I was too focused on moving up levels than perfecting my skills. I was the girl who could throw a roundoff full but couldn't do a roundoff 2 back handsprings to a tuck. Standing hand hand fulls were never a possibility, and even hand hand tucks were scary. I can land a standing tuck all day every day but standing bhs? They're froggy and hurt to do.

My high school did not compete, so tumbling was optional and I never did anything but standing tucks. I also did not tumble much on my allstar team. So, coming into college, my lack of technique and progressions with back handsprings really hurt me and I was cut because I was 10 years deep into bad habits. So, coaches, gym owners and athletes...take the time to teach/learn it correctly, especially for younger athletes...it can and will make a HUGE difference!

 

[cheerKT]

It's also REALLY common for college males to learn standing tucks and really nothing else. The guys who picked up cheer in college are usually there to stunt first and foremost. They teach them a tuck (oddly simple for guys that age to learn, albeit sometimes janky) and the rest of the tumbling is carried by the girls or tumbler guys who have a cheer or gymnastics background.

I would say majority of the guys on my school's team had a standing tuck and nothing else. Usually once that was clean (or at least landable) they would move them straight on to standing fulls. :confused:

 

[Official OWECheer]

It's also REALLY common for college males to learn standing tucks and really nothing else. The guys who picked up cheer in college are usually there to stunt first and foremost. They teach them a tuck (oddly simple for guys that age to learn, albeit sometimes janky) and the rest of the tumbling is carried by the girls or tumbler guys who have a cheer or gymnastics background.

I would say majority of the guys on my school's team had a standing tuck and nothing else. Usually once that was clear (or at least landable) they would move them straight on to standing fulls. :confused:

Sweet mother of gravity.

 

[WinstonsGirl]

I have much more tolerance for older/adult athletes skipping tumbling levels than I do young kids. Personally, I couldn't WO when I was 10 and in competitive gymnastics (I wasn't very good either). I finally started tumbling when I was late 20's, and I still find tucks much easier than BHS. I find BHS have to be perfect to keep going out of them, where tucks have more leeway in getting around and landing well. If you have an ok BHS, you really can't do anything out of it. My tuck is definitely cleaner and prettier than my BHS. I also just started doing my layouts. Not as clean as I want them yet, but it's easier for me to pull than a RO BHS tuck cos my BHS isn't always the same.

Kids starting young should absolutely go through the levels. It helps teach them the strength and conditioning needed to move on. Adults can usually control their body parts better (though not always), and often have the strength to push through strength based skills (like standing tucks). And really, no one needs a WO when you're in Open 4/6 other than random choreo.