All-Star Where's The Loyalty?

[mybabywantstotumble]

I don't know how it is everywhere else but the past few years it appears the loyalty has slowly faded away in this area. Kids and parents are willing to jump ship at anytime when things don't go their way. I'm tired of hearing about kids leaving one gym to go to another just because they won NCA or did well at Worlds / Summit or got a Worlds / Summit Bid. Even more is they assume they will make one of those teams! Ok, rant over.

This is a competitive sport, and an expensive one at that. If I am paying over $5K a year plus travel and I don't see my child learning, having fun and winning from time to time then I am out the door. We were at a crappy gym a few years ago where the kids played kickball at practice - KICKBALL! I'm all for having fun once in a while but when practice looks like rompa room, coaches are eating and on their phones during practice and your teams are consistently last place and not performing well then that is not the place for my CP. I can't believe parents are paying for that still. If my CP wanted to play kickball she would be in a kickball league.

 

[tumbleyoda]

After working in this industry and the gymnastics industry for most of my life I feel like you have 3 years with most cheerleaders. the first year everyone is gung ho about your program. You can do no wrong, even if you do wrong. You are the best thing since sliced bread. Way better than the previous gym if there was one. The second year eyes are more wide open. More things are noticed. Questions about things ignored in year one start to happen. More attention is paid to who else does what in routines, or which teams go to what competitions. It is more taken note of on how fast the communication is had with the parent and what the overall tone of it is. In year three it is often is make or break. Questions often turn to grumblings. Dissatisfaction finds its way into groups of parents of a like mind. By this time there are things that must be dealt with or the relationship will end. One way or the other. The parent will get tired of it, the athlete will get tired of it or the owner/coach will get tired of it.

I am blessed to be with a program where most of our athletes stay at least 5 years, with quite a few at the 8, 9, and 10 year mark. Our core coaches are well paid. Our supplemental coaches are paid above industry average. We have an incredible facility and are poised to continue that progress. We are financially stable in a very fickle industry. Like any program we have issues. We are not for everyone. We are not a cheerlebrity type gym. We prefer to keep our head down and mind our own business. We don't seek publicity and we really don't even market the gym beyond word of mouth and our own website. Those that want to be seen and noticed usually don't stay with us long at all, no matter how talented they are. We often recommend other gyms to newcomers once we sense that is what they are used to, the type of program they came from, or the type of program they want. Because that would not be a fit with us, eventually cause problems, and then we would be having the loyalty discussion. And we are 100 percent fine with it. This way we stay loyal to our convictions and our clients that like the services we offer and the way we provide them.

Just like a parent wants the best for their child, an owner wants the best for their business and sorry to break it to you, those two things aren't always the same thing. Just because it may be a bad fit, doesn't make it a bad gym, coach, owner. Nor does it make it a Suzie's mom or a Suzie. We too often lump multi faceted issues into easy to digest categories, that does a disservice to everyone. Parents protect your child. Business owners protect your business. And dont use the term protected them to excuse bad behavior.

 

[CookieMomster]

What it all stems from is best practices and the gyms that use them. A good understanding of business practices and a strong identity of core values will make all the difference. I think many gyms are started out of a love for cheer, but while that may get it going, a sound business plan will let it grow and overcome many of the challenges. @tumbleyoda it sounds like your gym is a leader in that area.

 

[Fiercecheermom]

I still believe that gyms are a business. If they weren't, they wouldn't be paying rent, employees, insurance, etc.
I believe that once your contract is up and the season is finished, your athlete is a free agent. Only in extreme/dangerous/felonious circumstances should they leave mid season. Loyalty should go both ways but not to the detriment to either party.

 

[tumbleyoda]

What it all stems from is best practices and the gyms that use them. A good understanding of business practices and a strong identity of core values will make all the difference. I think many gyms are started out of a love for cheer, but while that may get it going, a sound business plan will let it grow and overcome many of the challenges. @tumbleyoda it sounds like your gym is a leader in that area.

Thanks. I think we have studied our particular demographic and try to serve that first. We constantly reevaluate that as needed and do what we need to be able to do what we love which is work with kids. We don't claim to be the biggest, baddest or best. We just try to do what we do. We are profitable when many gyms quite frankly are not. Too many gyms are closing trying to be the next World Cup, Cali, Stingrays etc. or trying to impress everyone with flash and bling when it is really smoke and mirrors.

 

[Mndl]

I believe in loyalty for the season, barring extreme circumstances. My cp is very happy on her team and I fully anticipate staying at our gym next season, but we're a small gym and at this point there are no options for her to move up a level until she's of age for a senior team, which is a few years away(and if they change the age grid,even longer). If we need to switch gyms because of that I don't consider that disloyal, it's simply a decision that works best for her.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

After working in this industry and the gymnastics industry for most of my life I feel like you have 3 years with most cheerleaders. the first year everyone is gung ho about your program. You can do no wrong, even if you do wrong. You are the best thing since sliced bread. Way better than the previous gym if there was one. The second year eyes are more wide open. More things are noticed. Questions about things ignored in year one start to happen. More attention is paid to who else do what it routines, or which teams go to what competitions. It is more taken note of on how fast the communication is had with the parent and what the overall tone of it is. In year three it is often is make or break. Questions often turn to grumblings. Dissatisfaction finds its way into groups of parents of a like mind. By this time there are things that must be dealt with or the relationship will end. One way or the other. The parent will get tired of it, the athlete will get tired of it or the owner/coach will get tired of it.

.

I so agree with the three year thing. From a parent's perspective the third year is kind of the crazy one, it's the year when you start to expect something back from your investment, be it growth, or wins, or team longevity or respect or integrity etc. ( Seems like there are a lot of different things different families might expect back) . It's the year that you notice what doesn't change, and what does. It's also the year that you start to see what it looks like the program truly has to offer, and what your expectations are. But it's weird, because it often manifests in dissatisfaction, which isn't always warranted. It's like you are looking for a reason to either stay or move on.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I so agree with the three year thing. From a parent's perspective the third year is kind of the crazy one, it's the year when you start to expect something back from your investment, be it growth, or wins, or team longevity or respect or integrity etc. ( Seems like there are a lot of different things different families might expect back) . It's the year that you notice what doesn't change, and what does. It's also the year that you start to see what it looks like the program truly has to offer, and what your expectations are. But it's weird, because it often manifests in dissatisfaction, which isn't always warranted. It's like you are looking for a reason to either stay or move on.

Agree. It can be a multiplicity of issues that causes it but it always seems to be that third year.

 

[Su Yin]

Being apart of a gym that has people leave to go a bigger program as well as people leave smaller programs for us because of reasons x, y, z my biggest thing with "loyalty" is if everyone leaves how is the high level program ever going to grow? What is the rush? Susie you're 10 years old with your double why don't you just chill and hang around this R5 or level 4 team and in two years when are you friends are a little more experience with stunting so you can go to worlds as a cohesive team and maybe do well. Obviously this isn't always the case but I have seen this a lot and at many other I would say "Medium" sized gyms.

 

[SunnyinCO]

I don't generally have a problem with parents/kids who leave at the end of a season if they're not happy with cheer or the gym for whatever reason. But cheer is a team sport, and if someone leaves in the middle of the season, or just stops coming to practice, they are hurting the team. I understand that in bigger gyms, it's "next Susie up," and if a kid doesn't want to be there it's often an "addition by subtraction" outcome. However, my CP's team has 12 girls on it and is the highest level team in the gym at L3. Our next level down is L1. If a kid has L3 (or L4 or L5) skills, they are already on the L3 team. We don't have a lot of options if we lose a girl or if they just stop coming to practice. I understand things like injuries and tragic unforeseen circumstances. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about kids/parents who stop coming to practice because they don't feel like it, or because they think it will be hard, or because they don't think they have a big enough role in the routine, or because of any other trivial, selfish reason. If you're going to commit to a team for the season, I think you commit to a team for the season. Being on a team requires a certain amount of selflessness and, yes, loyalty.

 

[cheerisloving]

I've said it once and I'll say it again-loyalty is great but what does it mean when you stop growing? If you are progressing faster than your gym, why should you lose out on using your skill? The gym might of helped you get to where you are but you had to have the ability first. The gym doesn't own you.

And you can be loyal from another program by waiting till your season is over, talking to the coaches about why you're leaving-maybe what you say can be a difference. Supporting the program. We had one girl quit our team and join another program in a matter of weeks. She bashed us because we didn't have a winning reputation..Didn't go over well. When girls would leave to go to big name programs but still support the program and did it in a professional way, people were cool about it.

 

[SarahS]

I don't generally have a problem with parents/kids who leave at the end of a season if they're not happy with cheer or the gym for whatever reason. But cheer is a team sport, and if someone leaves in the middle of the season, or just stops coming to practice, they are hurting the team. I understand that in bigger gyms, it's "next Susie up," and if a kid doesn't want to be there it's often an "addition by subtraction" outcome. However, my CP's team has 12 girls on it and is the highest level team in the gym at L3. Our next level down is L1. If a kid has L3 (or L4 or L5) skills, they are already on the L3 team. We don't have a lot of options if we lose a girl or if they just stop coming to practice. I understand things like injuries and tragic unforeseen circumstances. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about kids/parents who stop coming to practice because they don't feel like it, or because they think it will be hard, or because they don't think they have a big enough role in the routine, or because of any other trivial, selfish reason. If you're going to commit to a team for the season, I think you commit to a team for the season. Being on a team requires a certain amount of selflessness and, yes, loyalty.

See, I don't get this idea that if you lose a kid, you "don't have a lot of options." 11 kids on the team is MUCH easier, ratio-wise. You only have to put up two stunts with elite level appropriate skills to max out stunt difficulty; and two tosses plus one additional toss, instead of three plus one additional. You still have enough kids to do a really great level 3 pyramid. You go from needing 9 kids to meet the "most" tumbling requirement, to needing 8, so even if that kid was a tumbler, the ratios should still work out.

I think the problem is that many coaches have never been in the position to be FORCED to use fewer athletes (because, say, they only have one team in their gym, so what they have is what they have, no pulling fill-ins from other levels), so they have perpetuated this idea that the loss of an athlete mid-season is kind of a death knell for the team, and I kind of see this translated to posts from parents and athletes all the time, about how it is unfair to their teammates for a kid to not finish the season. I would MUCH rather a kid quit than continue on for the remainder of the year if she or he is truly unhappy on the team - the athlete's unhappiness usually translates to the team (please understand that I am not at all criticizing parents or athletes who choose to stay even when unhappy! Again, you are the consumer, and as such, must choose what works best for you and your family, whether that means honoring what you consider to be a season-long commitment because that is important to you and your values, or it is choosing to leave for whatever reason you find important.). I love the challenge of mid-season changes. Bring them on.

 

[Michael White]

After working in this industry and the gymnastics industry for most of my life I feel like you have 3 years with most cheerleaders. the first year everyone is gung ho about your program. You can do no wrong, even if you do wrong. You are the best thing since sliced bread. Way better than the previous gym if there was one. The second year eyes are more wide open. More things are noticed. Questions about things ignored in year one start to happen. More attention is paid to who else does what in routines, or which teams go to what competitions. It is more taken note of on how fast the communication is had with the parent and what the overall tone of it is. In year three it is often is make or break. Questions often turn to grumblings. Dissatisfaction finds its way into groups of parents of a like mind. By this time there are things that must be dealt with or the relationship will end. One way or the other. The parent will get tired of it, the athlete will get tired of it or the owner/coach will get tired of it.

I am blessed to be with a program where most of our athletes stay at least 5 years, with quite a few at the 8, 9, and 10 year mark. Our core coaches are well paid. Our supplemental coaches are paid above industry average. We have an incredible facility and are poised to continue that progress. We are financially stable in a very fickle industry. Like any program we have issues. We are not for everyone. We are not a cheerlebrity type gym. We prefer to keep our head down and mind our own business. We don't seek publicity and we really don't even market the gym beyond word of mouth and our own website. Those that want to be seen and noticed usually don't stay with us long at all, no matter how talented they are. We often recommend other gyms to newcomers once we sense that is what they are used to, the type of program they came from, or the type of program they want. Because that would not be a fit with us, eventually cause problems, and then we would be having the loyalty discussion. And we are 100 percent fine with it. This way we stay loyal to our convictions and our clients that like the services we offer and the way we provide them.

Just like a parent wants the best for their child, an owner wants the best for their business and sorry to break it to you, those two things aren't always the same thing. Just because it may be a bad fit, doesn't make it a bad gym, coach, owner. Nor does it make it a Suzie's mom or a Suzie. We too often lump multi faceted issues into easy to digest categories, that does a disservice to everyone. Parents protect your child. Business owners protect your business. And dont use the term protected them to excuse bad behavior.

So agree with the three year thing, it also applies to coaches sometimes too... But that's none of my business.

 

[SunnyinCO]

See, I don't get this idea that if you lose a kid, you "don't have a lot of options." 11 kids on the team is MUCH easier, ratio-wise. You only have to put up two stunts with elite level appropriate skills to max out stunt difficulty; and two tosses plus one additional toss, instead of three plus one additional. You still have enough kids to do a really great level 3 pyramid. You go from needing 9 kids to meet the "most" tumbling requirement, to needing 8, so even if that kid was a tumbler, the ratios should still work out.

I think the problem is that many coaches have never been in the position to be FORCED to use fewer athletes (because, say, they only have one team in their gym, so what they have is what they have, no pulling fill-ins from other levels), so they have perpetuated this idea that the loss of an athlete mid-season is kind of a death knell for the team, and I kind of see this translated to posts from parents and athletes all the time, about how it is unfair to their teammates for a kid to not finish the season. I would MUCH rather a kid quit than continue on for the remainder of the year if she or he is truly unhappy on the team - the athlete's unhappiness usually translates to the team (please understand that I am not at all criticizing parents or athletes who choose to stay even when unhappy! Again, you are the consumer, and as such, must choose what works best for you and your family, whether that means honoring what you consider to be a season-long commitment because that is important to you and your values, or it is choosing to leave for whatever reason you find important.). I love the challenge of mid-season changes. Bring them on.

I get what you're saying. I think that's a really great attitude for a coach to have, and I think our own coach has done an awesome job of adjusting to changes. She has taken a very small program and made it competitive despite the inherent challenges of having small numbers. But are constant major choreography changes best for a team? I'm not talking about ramping up difficulty as the season progresses, or adjusting to judges' comments; rather, I'm talking about big changes. That seems like it could be a disadvantage. However, even if it's not a competitive disadvantage, I still think there needs to be some loyalty to the team. I understand this is "perfect world" thinking, but if you don't want to have any accountability to other people, you should take up some other individual sport. This is obviously just my opinion, but I feel strongly about it.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I think that gyms owe their customers loyalty, but in a different way. No, the kid who has grown up in the gym but is barely a level 4 should not be going to worlds. No, the girl who got a mental block and went from level 5 to level 2 should not be kept on the level 5 when Sparkle from junior 4 has a killer full. That's called favoritism, not loyalty.

Speaking from a school cheer perspective, I have alternates.

Since I have them, I can't justify keeping a kid who can no longer tumble in a comp routine when I have someone who can.

I will try to work around a mental block and just make that person a nugget, but if it persists, I need to plug in someone who is reliable.

Same with tryouts. If you can't tumble, I cannot just hold a spot for you based the tumbling you USED to have.

You try out and are scored the same as everyone else. With a zero for tumbling.

It's sad. I've had parents and kids ask me to score them on past tumbling but I don't find it to be fair to other kids.

I look at it like this, if you try out for a college team, you most likely aren't going to be able to say "I have a mental block but I could do ______ three months ago. Score that."