All-Star 2015 Worlds Packet

[ACEDAD]

Tha ACA has number of rules that apply to individuals. If the individual doesn't satisfy those requirements, the individual has to pay a penalty. No employer or association is required to enforce those rules.


**I'm very encouraging, but I'm also honest, so expect truth.**

 

[Future]

I still do not believe it is USASF's business whether you have health insurance. That doesn't mean I am anti-insurance. There are plenty of things that I personally believe all citizens and visitors SHOULD/SHOULDN'T do, but I don't think that USASF needs to check as athletes walk on the mat. (have current car inspection, returned all library books, gotten teeth cleaned, donated blood, paid rent, called your parents, voted in elections, etc.) The only things they should be worried about are whether the athletes are age-eligible and are members of the gym they are representing. They should also have the authority to regulate some specific behavior that directly impacts the safety of the participants at the event, such as underage alcohol consumption. (Even that should probably just be handled by the local police, IMO.)

Part of it is philosophical (libertarian), but a big part of it is practical as well. USASF has it's hands more than full trying to be an efficient governing body of a diverse sport. There is no need at this point to make things more complicated for them, which adding immigration or insurance checks to registration will do. They should be focusing on the core issues and doing them well, rather than adding layers of paperwork, IMO.

Spot on...

 

[catlady]

@BlueCat I tend to believe this is merely a CYA declaration. IMO, they are simply regurgitating new ACA. laws concerning US citizenship or International Student status with insurance coverage, which does pertain to athlete health and safety, which does fall under USASF's responsibility. You, obviously, have had more dealings with the USASF than myself but, I do find it hard to believe their intent is to police immigration laws and check Green Cards as athletes hit the mat.

 

[HeatUniqueJ]

Yes and no...that rule was revised last season....depending on certain things, teams can request exceptions (e.g. if you're near an army base and there are like 5 Americans on the team/want to be on the team). But technically, that is the rule of thumb. It used to be any country that was "pro-cheerleading" (I think they included Finland at one point in this, if I remember correctly?? I know Japan was definitely restricted).

interesting i did not know they revised that rule , they could add norway too i guess ;)

 

[BlueCat]

@BlueCat I tend to believe this is merely a CYA declaration. IMO, they are simply regurgitating new ACA. laws concerning US citizenship or International Student status with insurance coverage, which does pertain to athlete health and safety, which does fall under USASF's responsibility. You, obviously, have had more dealings with the USASF than myself but, I do find it hard to believe their intent is to police immigration laws and check Green Cards as athletes hit the mat.

I could certainly be wrong, as I was not in the room when the decision was made - however I don't think it has anything to do with the Affordable Care Act. It seems much more like a throw-on rule to make the registration packets line up with ICU's without much thought into how it could affect current teams.

You could make an argument that nearly anything they felt like making rules about could be justified as and stretched to be somewhat related to "athlete safety". (Kind of like Congress has done to the Commerce Clause.) I would hope that they would limit themselves to things that are have direct, obvious, and immediate potential impact on safety. (no double back basket tosses, for example.) Citing athlete safety when ruling that athletes must live within the same political boundary as the address of your gym is a bit of a stretch, IMO.

You also have the argument that they are a business and can make whatever rules they want in a free economy. The problem is that they are NOT a normal business. They are a political governing body that sets up its own rules, regulations, and protects its interests. In this case, they have permanent non-elected leadership as well. That doesn't make what they do automatically wrong or evil, but it does mean that we should keep a critical eye on the rules and decisions they make.

 

[gofriars610]

Part of it is philosophical (libertarian), but a big part of it is practical as well. USASF has it's hands more than full trying to be an efficient governing body of a diverse sport. There is no need at this point to make things more complicated for them, which adding immigration or insurance checks to registration will do. They should be focusing on the core issues and doing them well, rather than adding layers of paperwork, IMO.

BlueCat 4 Prez 2k16

 

[GreatWhite92]

I kind of feel like they may be making a blanket statement that they don't plan on really enforcing just to cover their A** if someone ever comes questioning. I don't know if they could be held responsible say if something bad happened at a competition involving an illegal alien. I could see some higher up government official asking "Well why were you allowing an illegal alien to compete?" and They could easily say "but oh don't you see, it says right here in the rules that they must be legal. They obviously were not following the rules. Not our fault"

Does that make sense?

 

[catlady]

[QUOTE="BlueCat, post: 967099, member: 370 They are a political governing body that sets up its own rules, regulations, and protects its interests. In this case, they have permanent non-elected leadership as well. That doesn't make what they do automatically wrong or evil, but it does mean that we should keep a critical eye on the rules and decisions they make.[/QUOTE]

100% agree with this statement, especially the "protect its interests". I liken this to the "Don't Text and Drive" law which the auto and cell phone industry, along with schools jumped on the band wagon quickly putting it their advertisements, on billboards, and all over schools. They don't police texting and driving but, they are certainly protecting their interests so when the ambulance chasers pull them into the courtroom they can say, "We did our part in trying to prevent this." I will, also, go as far as saying, it would be probably worth a phone call to a lawyer and the insurance company for gym owners. Assuming again but, turning a blind eye probably doesn't mean you can't be held liable for injuries if you have someone in the states for the purpose of cheer on a 3 month Visa (which according to the article on the ACA I posted above states they can't use the insurance exchange). I know absolutely nothing about the ICU so, again, this is your expertise. Mine was corporate CYA so, I tend to look at everything from that angle. Bottom line, whatever the reason, it's sad for these kids.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I kind of feel like they may be making a blanket statement that they don't plan on really enforcing just to cover their A** if someone ever comes questioning. I don't know if they could be held responsible say if something bad happened at a competition involving an illegal alien. I could see some higher up government official asking "Well why were you allowing an illegal alien to compete?" and They could easily say "but oh don't you see, it says right here in the rules that they must be legal. They obviously were not following the rules. Not our fault"

Does that make sense?

But that wouldn't cover them at all, would it? The government doesn't care who we allow to compete. Even if they get injured, non residents don't have any type of insurance requirement even under ACA.

CYA seems like a GREAT excuse, but I can't see any potential situation that would happen in our sport that WOULD get the government involved. Outside of overstaying a visa, which again is a GOVERNMENT issue, not USASF, so it's not their responsibility to make some half-wacked requirement that legitimately affects people who are operating within American/International laws.

 

[rrhhiannon]

What kind of visas or whatever do the kids that play in the QMJHL have? My family has hosted a few of the players and they are required to take high school classes unless they have already graduated. Does the Q make the rules or do they follow each country's immigration rules? Whichever it is it would make sense for the USASF to do the same, the players are team vs. team but come world juniors/ICU they compete for their own country.


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[gofriars610]

What kind of visas or whatever do the kids that play in the QMJHL have? My family has hosted a few of the players and they are required to take high school classes unless they have already graduated. Does the Q make the rules or do they follow each country's immigration rules? Whichever it is it would make sense for the USASF to do the same, the players are team vs. team but come world juniors/ICU they compete for their own country.


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per this: Westhead: Twin lawsuits filed against WHL, QMJHL over working conditions - Article - TSN Canadians who play on American major junior teams are here on a P-1 Work Visa.

I have no idea how Canadian immigration works except onetime I accidentally snuck alcohol into your country because I didn't want to tell my parents it was in my suitcase on a trip to montreal. :oops:

 

[rrhhiannon]

per this: Westhead: Twin lawsuits filed against WHL, QMJHL over working conditions - Article - TSN Canadians who play on American major junior teams are here on a P-1 Work Visa.

I have no idea how Canadian immigration works except onetime I accidentally snuck alcohol into your country because I didn't want to tell my parents it was in my suitcase on a trip to montreal. :oops:

On our way home from Florida my mom got out of the car walked back into our rv and then back to the car at the border and the guy was just like uh you can't do that. They didn't even check the rv!


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[amy1k]

Sorry to bump an old post, but I'm curious if there was clarification on this. Obviously it wasn't an issue for athletes at Worlds.

 

[MartineFL]

I agree this rule is not very smart, however how does the girls from Viqueens, the Canadians and Dylan stay in US for a year on a tourist visa? I though that the tourist visa is only valid for 3 months?

The Viqueens Girls are on a extended tourist visa:)