All-Star 2015 Worlds Packet

[quitthedrama]

Not what I was expecting inside this thread, but very interesting. I feel confident in saying that something definitely prompted USASF to implement this...beyond "policing" gyms to do what is correct (although that might be a peripheral objective). Insurance/health care, in this country, has been a point of contention for a while and could very well be a concern to USASF. But why would USASF (or ANYONE else) want to hold an event that allowed people to compete who did not have the proper permission to do so? We don't allow it at the Olympics so Worlds should not either. Again, we want our sport to be considered along the same lines as many others and taken seriously. That being said, the terminology needs to be better defined. What are the exact requirements for the US and the rest of the World? It does create some issues for some gyms, but anyone competing at this time for a gym on a "tourist visa" in the US, would probably not be able to compete at Worlds at the end of April legally anyway. US Tourist Visas are designed for one specific period of time (per the travel.state.gov site). Most seem to be 90 days..period... but there are variations depending on the country. Do people "leave" and come back to "renew"? Yes, they do, but it is not legal, and should not be "encouraged". It is very irresponsible for ANYONE to encourage any of these athletes to "skirt" the rules. I realize that Europe and the rest of the world have different rules regarding visas, etc, so that needs to be addressed by USASF as well. I will say that IF we have athletes in the US that are not following our immigration policies, then I for one am glad USASF added this caveat.

What were you expecting inside this thread?

Disclaimer: Certain posters may not be who they appear to be. I am not really Beaker, although we have the same facial expression when reading certain threads on Fierceboard.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Not what I was expecting inside this thread, but very interesting. I feel confident in saying that something definitely prompted USASF to implement this...beyond "policing" gyms to do what is correct (although that might be a peripheral objective). Insurance/health care, in this country, has been a point of contention for a while and could very well be a concern to USASF. But why would USASF (or ANYONE else) want to hold an event that allowed people to compete who did not have the proper permission to do so? We don't allow it at the Olympics so Worlds should not either. Again, we want our sport to be considered along the same lines as many others and taken seriously. That being said, the terminology needs to be better defined. What are the exact requirements for the US and the rest of the World? It does create some issues for some gyms, but anyone competing at this time for a gym on a "tourist visa" in the US, would probably not be able to compete at Worlds at the end of April legally anyway. US Tourist Visas are designed for one specific period of time (per the travel.state.gov site). Most seem to be 90 days..period... but there are variations depending on the country. Do people "leave" and come back to "renew"? Yes, they do, but it is not legal, and should not be "encouraged". It is very irresponsible for ANYONE to encourage any of these athletes to "skirt" the rules. I realize that Europe and the rest of the world have different rules regarding visas, etc, so that needs to be addressed by USASF as well. I will say that IF we have athletes in the US that are not following our immigration policies, then I for one am glad USASF added this caveat.

Do you not think the usasf should be addressing more important issues like abandoning comparative scoring at an event that puts the early teams at a distinct disadvantage?

If the usasf wants to enforce government immigration laws they need to have the rule specifically address people in the US. Who cares if an athlete cheers for Sweden but lives in Denmark? This sounds more like a back door deal that one or two gyms lobbied to have passed and enacted once the season is already underway.


*If you are a telemarketer, or wrong number, and contact me I apologize in advance**

 

[kristenthegreat]

Immigration rules/laws are not the responsibility of the USASF. They are the responsibility of the GOVERNMENT of the country in which you are attempting to immigrate to, BY THE PERSON doing the immigration, period. I can think of at least 10 things that the USASF is responsible for. Immigration ain't on that list, nor would insisting that every athlete use a specific visa help with that matter. If the wording was 'All athletes must have proper immigration work to compete under a USASF gym (if so required)', I'd understand. THAT wording shows that they are concerned that all athletes are legal to be wherever they are. THIS wording doesn't do anything positive the way it is, only causes more issues for teams all over the world, as far as I can see.

I am still not convinced for one second that this has anything to do with health insurance. Nor do I think this has anything to do with liability insurance. Athletes aren't covered by gyms under ACA. And liability isn't worried about your Country of Origin, only if you're at risk of injury.

 

[Fiercecheermom]

Do you not think the usasf should be addressing more important issues like abandoning comparative scoring at an event that puts the early teams at a distinct disadvantage?

If the usasf wants to enforce government immigration laws they need to have the rule specifically address people in the US. Who cares if an athlete cheers for Sweden but lives in Denmark? This sounds more like a back door deal that one or two gyms lobbied to have passed and enacted once the season is already underway.


*If you are a telemarketer, or wrong number, and contact me I apologize in advance**

Absolutely, I would love for them to address that subject, and a few others LOL. I was strictly commenting on the subject being discussed. I don't believe the USASF should have anything to do with immigration. I do believe that anyone who enters/stays in this country, does so legally. As I stated before, USASF needs to define the term "legal residents / legal student residents" further so that the expectation/definition is crystal clear. Additionally, it is not fair for USASF to initiate a new requirement mid-season, unless there is a legal aspect. In that case, USASF needs to be forthcoming with that information. As long as the athlete is legally allowed in the country at Worlds 2015, they should be allowed to compete. The fair thing to all involved is to implement this next year.
That being said, if an athlete has the ability to travel across borders without needing visas/waivers etc, then they absolutely should be able to cheer with the gym they travel to. This seems to be the case in Canada/US , Europe, and perhaps a few other places. My comments are strictly concerning the athletes who need visas to be where they want to cheer. I think between the immigration issue videos and discussions of athletes moving to/from countries on the social media sites, the door was opened and some gyms took advantage of the available material. I am all about transparency especially when initiating new requirements/expectations. On a final note, am I the only one who sees the irony that two of this country's "hot button" issues are being discussed here (immigration and healthcare/insurance) on a cheer site? Food for thought....

 

[Fiercecheermom]

What were you expecting inside this thread?

Disclaimer: Certain posters may not be who they appear to be. I am not really Beaker, although we have the same facial expression when reading certain threads on Fierceboard.

Lighter fare of "rain date for Large Senior/Large Coed" , Canadian Trials, etc. arrival dates, costs, etc. LOL...

 

[Cheer Dad]

Absolutely, I would love for them to address that subject, and a few others LOL. I was strictly commenting on the subject being discussed. I don't believe the USASF should have anything to do with immigration. I do believe that anyone who enters/stays in this country, does so legally. As I stated before, USASF needs to define the term "legal residents / legal student residents" further so that the expectation/definition is crystal clear. Additionally, it is not fair for USASF to initiate a new requirement mid-season, unless there is a legal aspect. In that case, USASF needs to be forthcoming with that information. As long as the athlete is legally allowed in the country at Worlds 2015, they should be allowed to compete. The fair thing to all involved is to implement this next year.
That being said, if an athlete has the ability to travel across borders without needing visas/waivers etc, then they absolutely should be able to cheer with the gym they travel to. This seems to be the case in Canada/US , Europe, and perhaps a few other places. My comments are strictly concerning the athletes who need visas to be where they want to cheer. I think between the immigration issue videos and discussions of athletes moving to/from countries on the social media sites, the door was opened and some gyms took advantage of the available material. I am all about transparency especially when initiating new requirements/expectations. On a final note, am I the only one who sees the irony that two of this country's "hot button" issues are being discussed here (immigration and healthcare/insurance) on a cheer site? Food for thought....

Not making any irony connection. ;(


*If you are a telemarketer, or wrong number, and contact me I apologize in advance**

 

[pochantas22]

So you have one athlete one Black Ops that has no visa to be here. Her Visa was flagged upon arrival according to what she herself has said. And another one that is here on a visitors visa and will be homeschooled when she comes back from winter break. A rep from the team says that new rule is vague. What don't people understand about coming into this country?!

 

[yooolizzi]

So you have one athlete one Black Ops that has no visa to be here. Her Visa was flagged upon arrival according to what she herself has said. And another one that is here on a visitors visa and will be homeschooled when she comes back from winter break. A rep from the team says that new rule is vague. What don't people understand about coming into this country?!

Where did you get all this information, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[BlueCat]

Not an accusation or hear say. First hand information.

So, you directly heard the conversation yourself. You were in the room when this conversation took place. Otherwise, it pretty much meets the exact definition of hearsay.

FWIW, it is an accusation as well - by an anonymous message board source. That doesn't necessarily make it false, but you shouldn't be surprised when people don't just automatically believe you.

 

[Kelli Nicole]

true. But if you don't have german passport you probably cant compete for german gym n I guess?
We have this rule at europeans and our nationals for few years now.

Not what I meant, I meant that it is much easier to go and compete in other countries within the EU (immigration-wise) than it is to come to the US for an extended period of time.

Of course you can't go to Europeans and compete as a German national if you don't have a German passport (same for ICU Worlds). But I can go to German Nationals and compete as a non-German citizen (done it! )

 

[Kelli Nicole]

I admittedly don't know the details of Obamacare, but I don't believe it requires businesses to provide health insurance for their customers (athletes). It certainly impacts what they must offer their employees (coaches).

Yes, it places requirements of employers... but it also requires that everyone in the USA has coverages or to face the consequences (i.e. penalties).

 

[catlady]

Impact of the ACA on International Students | Insurance Explained

The ACA’s Noncitizen Provisions
Under the ACA all lawfully present individuals will be able to purchase health insurance through an Exchange, whereas unauthorized aliens will be barred from doing so. Moreover, lawfully present noncitizens who meet specified criteria will be eligible for a federal income tax credit to help purchase coverage through an Exchange.
For ACA purposes, a person is considered “lawfully present” in the United States only if he or she is – and is reasonably expected to be for the entire period of enrollment in an Exchange – either a U.S. citizen or national, or a noncitizen who is lawfully present in the United States. Until the Exchanges become operational, it is not clear what the shortest period of enrollment will be. Once that question is answered, certain noncitizens may be excluded from the “lawfully present” category (for instance, if the minimum period of enrollment is six months and they have only a three-month visa).

So, based on these two articles, citizens and those lawfully present are able to use the insurance exchange. International students are excluded from the rules of the ACA. Obamacare/ACA is not just about employers requirements, it is also about the individual healthcare exchange. If a person is not here lawfully, they can't enroll on the healthcare exchange, and therefore, are not insured.

 

[HeatUniqueJ]

Not what I meant, I meant that it is much easier to go and compete in other countries within the EU (immigration-wise) than it is to come to the US for an extended period of time.

Of course you can't go to Europeans and compete as a German national if you don't have a German passport (same for ICU Worlds). But I can go to German Nationals and compete as a non-German citizen (done it! )

with the restriction that you can only have one US/Canadian person on your team haha
other nationalities are not restricted though

 

[Kelli Nicole]

with the restriction that you can only have one US/Canadian person on your team haha
other nationalities are not restricted though

Yes and no...that rule was revised last season....depending on certain things, teams can request exceptions (e.g. if you're near an army base and there are like 5 Americans on the team/want to be on the team). But technically, that is the rule of thumb. It used to be any country that was "pro-cheerleading" (I think they included Finland at one point in this, if I remember correctly?? I know Japan was definitely restricted).

 

[BlueCat]

Impact of the ACA on International Students | Insurance Explained

The ACA’s Noncitizen Provisions
Under the ACA all lawfully present individuals will be able to purchase health insurance through an Exchange, whereas unauthorized aliens will be barred from doing so. Moreover, lawfully present noncitizens who meet specified criteria will be eligible for a federal income tax credit to help purchase coverage through an Exchange.
For ACA purposes, a person is considered “lawfully present” in the United States only if he or she is – and is reasonably expected to be for the entire period of enrollment in an Exchange – either a U.S. citizen or national, or a noncitizen who is lawfully present in the United States. Until the Exchanges become operational, it is not clear what the shortest period of enrollment will be. Once that question is answered, certain noncitizens may be excluded from the “lawfully present” category (for instance, if the minimum period of enrollment is six months and they have only a three-month visa).

So, based on these two articles, citizens and those lawfully present are able to use the insurance exchange. International students are excluded from the rules of the ACA. Obamacare/ACA is not just about employers requirements, it is also about the individual healthcare exchange. If a person is not here lawfully, they can't enroll on the healthcare exchange, and therefore, are not insured.

I still do not believe it is USASF's business whether you have health insurance. That doesn't mean I am anti-insurance. There are plenty of things that I personally believe all citizens and visitors SHOULD/SHOULDN'T do, but I don't think that USASF needs to check as athletes walk on the mat. (have current car inspection, returned all library books, gotten teeth cleaned, donated blood, paid rent, called your parents, voted in elections, etc.) The only things they should be worried about are whether the athletes are age-eligible and are members of the gym they are representing. They should also have the authority to regulate some specific behavior that directly impacts the safety of the participants at the event, such as underage alcohol consumption. (Even that should probably just be handled by the local police, IMO.)

Part of it is philosophical (libertarian), but a big part of it is practical as well. USASF has it's hands more than full trying to be an efficient governing body of a diverse sport. There is no need at this point to make things more complicated for them, which adding immigration or insurance checks to registration will do. They should be focusing on the core issues and doing them well, rather than adding layers of paperwork, IMO.