All-Star 2015 Worlds Packet

[Just-a-Mom]

I admittedly don't know the details of Obamacare, but I don't believe it requires businesses to provide health insurance for their customers (athletes). It certainly impacts what they must offer their employees (coaches).

This. The aca has absolutely zero to do with athletes (unpaid) on a nonprofessional team. They're not employees. We don't provide any athletes with insurance, international or not.

(Side note, it probably impacts very few coaches either, as I doubt very many gyms have over 50 coaches employed full time)

 

[catlady]

I admittedly don't know the details of Obamacare, but I don't believe it requires businesses to provide health insurance for their customers (athletes). It certainly impacts what they must offer their employees (coaches).

This. The aca has absolutely zero to do with athletes (unpaid) on a nonprofessional team. They're not employees.
(Side note, it probably impacts very few coaches either, as I doubt very many gyms have over 50 coaches employed full time)

Having nothing to do with the ACA but, based on what little I read on the website, it appears the USASF is required to provide the venues proof of athlete insurance to be allowed to use their facilities. Having everything to do with the ACA, would be the legal considerations when it comes to International students and non-residents.

 

[Aussiekat]

Every time we travel to worlds, every athlete is required by our own gyms to get travel health insurance (Travel Nomads even specifically covers cheerleading as a class C covered activity). I did the same when I went to be a part of CA. I was there LEGALLY on a visa waiver, with insurance and with enough money saved to support myself. The only difference between now, and this time last year, is that the usasf doesn't think that's good enough. I know of three Aussies who are already talking to coaches and planning for the 15-16 season. Unless this "legal resident" wording is resolved, they won't be able to go; I will be one of the last to get this experience and to me, that isn't even the slightest bit fair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[123jump4!]

Every time we travel to worlds, every athlete is required by our own gyms to get travel health insurance (Travel Nomads even specifically covers cheerleading as a class C covered activity). I did the same when I went to be a part of CA. I was there LEGALLY on a visa waiver, with insurance and with enough money saved to support myself. The only difference between now, and this time last year, is that the usasf doesn't think that's good enough. I know of three Aussies who are already talking to coaches and planning for the 15-16 season. Unless this "legal resident" wording is resolved, they won't be able to go; I will be one of the last to get this experience and to me, that isn't even the slightest bit fair.

Visa waiver is only for 90 days. That would be fine to come to the US and compete at Worlds but not to be on a team for a whole season. How did you do this? Agree that health insurance is important! Even though you will still get emergency treatment you could end up with a bill for crazy amounts of money.

Also, "legal resident" is not a real term in immigration issues. (Permanent resident is a green card holder.) I'm guessing they just mean someone who is here legally?

 

[DropAndRun]

Ok this is an extreme scenario, but...

I work in an industry whose workforce is largely fueled by people living in this country illegally. There are instances every year where there are raids and mass deportation. It's scary- people try to pull out and get workers away when they know it's going to happen but sometimes they find out too late.

What if they came to worlds and did the same? There are major, life long, life changing implications there, for both employees and employers.. Not worth it in my opinion.

Unlikely.. But we used to say that too and then it became an almost yearly event.

 

[Aussiekat]

Visa waiver is only for 90 days. That would be fine to come to the US and compete at Worlds but not to be on a team for a whole season. How did you do this? Agree that health insurance is important! Even though you will still get emergency treatment you could end up with a bill for crazy amounts of money.

Also, "legal resident" is not a real term in immigration issues. (Permanent resident is a green card holder.) I'm guessing they just mean someone who is here legally?

My team didn't start competing until February. Many ioc teams have flexible rosters and start their season later. I had applied for a B1/2 but talking to the embassy they said a visa waiver was fine. I spent a week in Costa Rica on holiday as well, and when I re-entered the US, a very nice immigration guy chatted to me about what I was doing and reset my waiver in case I wanted to stay longer. I travelled with a bank statement (to prove financial independence), my flight itinerary (showing I planned to leave the U.S.), an email from a coach saying what I was doing in Dallas, and a list of references if they wanted to call someone and verify anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[calikristin]

Just to clarify here, as long as you have a student residence you can come and cheer for a team in the US. I am from Canada and would really like to come and cheer in the states and have the opportunity to possibly attend Worlds.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

Never mind. After reading the minutes from the advisory board, earlier in this thread I am not convinced this actually has much to do with insurance. It seems to me that this is applying to international divisions and an ICU thing. Has anyone gotten any clarification for their own programs?

 

[kristenthegreat]

The wording is just so unclear. A 'student resident' is not a real legal term. Has ANYONE gotten clarification yet?

 

[Fiercecheermom]

Not what I was expecting inside this thread, but very interesting. I feel confident in saying that something definitely prompted USASF to implement this...beyond "policing" gyms to do what is correct (although that might be a peripheral objective). Insurance/health care, in this country, has been a point of contention for a while and could very well be a concern to USASF. But why would USASF (or ANYONE else) want to hold an event that allowed people to compete who did not have the proper permission to do so? We don't allow it at the Olympics so Worlds should not either. Again, we want our sport to be considered along the same lines as many others and taken seriously. That being said, the terminology needs to be better defined. What are the exact requirements for the US and the rest of the World? It does create some issues for some gyms, but anyone competing at this time for a gym on a "tourist visa" in the US, would probably not be able to compete at Worlds at the end of April legally anyway. US Tourist Visas are designed for one specific period of time (per the travel.state.gov site). Most seem to be 90 days..period... but there are variations depending on the country. Do people "leave" and come back to "renew"? Yes, they do, but it is not legal, and should not be "encouraged". It is very irresponsible for ANYONE to encourage any of these athletes to "skirt" the rules. I realize that Europe and the rest of the world have different rules regarding visas, etc, so that needs to be addressed by USASF as well. I will say that IF we have athletes in the US that are not following our immigration policies, then I for one am glad USASF added this caveat.

 

[BlueCat]

Not what I was expecting inside this thread, but very interesting. I feel confident in saying that something definitely prompted USASF to implement this...beyond "policing" gyms to do what is correct (although that might be a peripheral objective). Insurance/health care, in this country, has been a point of contention for a while and could very well be a concern to USASF. But why would USASF (or ANYONE else) want to hold an event that allowed people to compete who did not have the proper permission to do so? We don't allow it at the Olympics so Worlds should not either. A

I have been in those rooms when decisions are made. It is not safe to assume that if the rule exists, there is automatically a legitimate, well-thought-out reason for it.

At the Olympics, athletes are specifically representing their country. At USASF Worlds, they are representing their gyms. Olympics (and ICU) should require you to be a member of the country you are representing, Worlds should require you to be a member of the gym you are representing.

It would be equivalent for me if at their All Star National Championship, NCA required every athlete to be a resident of the state where their gym was located. Most athletes would probably fit the rule, but what would be the point?

 

[Mom Jeans]

I have been in those rooms when decisions are made. It is not safe to assume that they have had a good reason for making the rule.

At the Olympics, athletes are specifically representing their country. At USASF Worlds, they are representing their gyms. Olympics (and ICU) should require you to be a member of the country you are representing, Worlds should require you to be a member of the gym you are representing.

It would be equivalent for me if at their All Star National Championship, NCA required every athlete to be a resident of the state where their gym was located. Most athletes would probably fit the rule, but what would be the point?

I agree ICU is for country vs country but Worlds International divisions seem to go with country vs country with the whole top 3 from each country go to finals. Why though?

I've heard the whole "that's the way Olympics does it" and I don't buy it. In the Olympics they only do that when it comes to the individual medals. the athletes compete as a team and as individual, so do we pick the rule that applies for individuals?

USASF needs to have every division be gym vs gym, that way there are no special rules for any division.

Oh I think the division's should just be called Open 5 and Open 6

 

[Ashley]

Not what I was expecting inside this thread, but very interesting. I feel confident in saying that something definitely prompted USASF to implement this...beyond "policing" gyms to do what is correct (although that might be a peripheral objective). Insurance/health care, in this country, has been a point of contention for a while and could very well be a concern to USASF. But why would USASF (or ANYONE else) want to hold an event that allowed people to compete who did not have the proper permission to do so? We don't allow it at the Olympics so Worlds should not either. Again, we want our sport to be considered along the same lines as many others and taken seriously. That being said, the terminology needs to be better defined. What are the exact requirements for the US and the rest of the World? It does create some issues for some gyms, but anyone competing at this time for a gym on a "tourist visa" in the US, would probably not be able to compete at Worlds at the end of April legally anyway. US Tourist Visas are designed for one specific period of time (per the travel.state.gov site). Most seem to be 90 days..period... but there are variations depending on the country. Do people "leave" and come back to "renew"? Yes, they do, but it is not legal, and should not be "encouraged". It is very irresponsible for ANYONE to encourage any of these athletes to "skirt" the rules. I realize that Europe and the rest of the world have different rules regarding visas, etc, so that needs to be addressed by USASF as well. I will say that IF we have athletes in the US that are not following our immigration policies, then I for one am glad USASF added this caveat.

It's not illegal. It may not be the spirit of the rule, and immigration doesn't have to let you back in the country if you try it or if they have reason to believe you're trying to establish residency here. The rule is not 90 days within a calendar year. If you have a return plane ticket at the end of April, you're not going to get in trouble.

Visa Waiver Program FAQs | Consulate General of the United States Curacao

What if I enter on the Visa Waiver Program and then decide I want to stay longer than the 90 days?
You cannot extend the time on the Visa Waiver Program. The 90 days also includes any time spent in Canada, Mexico and adjacent Islands. Therefore you cannot cross the border into these areas and then return for another 90 days. You can however ask for re-entry on the Visa Waiver Program if you have left the Continent.

Visa Waiver Program & ESTA | Embassy of the United States

Is there a set period of time I am required to remain outside the United States before returning?
There is no set period of time you are required to remain outside the United States before reapplying for admission. Each time you travel, the immigration authorities at the port of entry needs to be satisfied that the purpose of your trip is for a visit only and that you have a residence outside the United States which you have no intention of abandoning. Be sure to carry with you evidence of your residence and commitments outside the United States for presentation to the immigration officer. However, if he or she is not convinced that you are a genuine visitor, you will be denied entry.

I don't disagree with you that the USASF shouldn't encourage doing that, and they should be pushing athletes to get longer visas, but they don't need to be making up random immigration rules. And the only reason I think that the USASF shouldn't encourage that is because they can't guarantee it. An immigration officer doesn't have to let Susie on Smoed back into the country for another 90 days after she went home to her country for two weeks over Christmas.

I also wouldn't be surprised if this has to do with insurance, but I don't think it has to do with the ACA/obamacare. Maybe liability insurance. Anyone traveling to the US from a foreign country needs to get proper travel insurance. The type of visa they have is irrelevant.

 

[Ashley]

I agree ICU is for country vs country but Worlds International divisions seem to go with country vs country with the whole top 3 from each country go to finals. Why though?

I've heard the whole "that's the way Olympics does it" and I don't buy it. In the Olympics they only do that when it comes to the individual medals. the athletes compete as a team and as individual, so do we pick the rule that applies for individuals?

USASF needs to have every division be gym vs gym, that way there are no special rules for any division.

They do it that way to try and make it "fair" to the non-US teams who travel halfway across the world and spend all this money to come to the US to compete. They did it so it wouldn't be all US teams in finals. Maybe now that we're getting a lot more international teams placing in the top, it will change.

 

[BlueCat]

I agree ICU is for country vs country but Worlds International divisions seem to go with country vs country with the whole top 3 from each country go to finals. Why though?

I've heard the whole "that's the way Olympics does it" and I don't buy it. In the Olympics they only do that when it comes to the individual medals. the athletes compete as a team and as individual, so do we pick the rule that applies for individuals?

USASF needs to have every division be gym vs gym, that way there are no special rules for any division.

Oh I think the division's should just be called Open 5 and Open 6

For better or worse, it is essentially affirmative action for non-US teams. I don't actually believe this is true, but the argument is that if non-US teams felt they had to compete against the full compliment of US teams in finals, they would just not even go to Worlds.

They also set up some age divisions to be called "international" and set up a different rule-making system for those divisions. (Junior used to be called "international junior" also.) They had a different name to denote which ones were controlled by the "international" set of rules (and the "IASF" I believe.) The votes on those divisions are 1 vote per country, rather than by participation numbers, so it isn't likely to change any time soon.

The Olympics is an entirely different animal than Worlds. I like the Olympics, but there are more differences than there are similarities. I don't think it is usually helpful to compare the two. Worlds, and our sport in general, is a unique hybrid of several sports, which is part of the appeal, IMO.