All-Star A Growing Issue... I.e. Crossovers On Worlds Teams (for Bid Obtaining Purposes)

[Bystander]

Enforce

 

[Level5Mom]

One thing we have to keep in mind is when you present a rule that has too much tied into it you can automatically assume it will be voted down. Keep it simple and separate the issues so it is an easy yes or no vote when possible. There is always a ton to vote on and people get overwhelmed and scared so they just vote no to avoid change. JMO.

 

[cheerisgood]

Enforce

newbie grammer police....#Annoying:p

 

[Ceacoach]

This is a great discussion so far. We are all enjoying the insight and agenda. For purposes of argument. In response only to several inaccurate statements and insinuations:

CEA Medium Coed included 10 crossovers from SE and CoEd Elite all
Season, not for this bid winning event as this thread suggests. They adore this team and have enjoyed a very successful
regular season something that used to matter and should now. Worlds is one end of the year event, those that inhibit the happiness of their customer base solely for that purpose should
Take note of this example. The least scrutinized team at CEA has ironically enjoyed the most championship success and the kids have loved it for what it is a really fun team that doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. As a result my beloved veteran crossovers have been able to train for collegiate stunting in ways their resident team could not. They have passed on their traditions and work ethic to the up and coming generation of level 5 talent. This team was formed to train athletes not to "take" bids. They were brought to tears by both their at large bid wins. The opportunity for spots on this team has spawned an impressive display of skill progression across our program
And has given the worlds opportunity to three boys who in no way could afford all of the costs of a long season.
The 5 other paid bids were won without reliance on crossovers

This thread brings about many valid
Points, to which I will add: the current method
Of bid winning is broken and should be revamped by region.. To add legimate regional champions,To reinforce local competition and lower athlete cost.

Carry on ..

 

[Bystander]

Wow! people factually wrong in their posts??? Never!!!!! Maybe we could ENFORCE a fact based rule! ;)

 

[redsmom]

Carrying on... does the reality that 1/3 of a team was never eligible to compete with the team at Worlds by virtue of their membership on other worlds teams, change this conversation? Does having fun, justify stacking a team, did it justify it in the case of level 3, 4 & 5 athletes winning an NCA jacket by competing level 2 (as I imagine they also had fun).

Sorry, I just feel disappointed :(

 

[cheerisgood]

Carrying on... does the reality that 1/3 of a team was never eligible to compete with the team at Worlds by virtue of their membership on other worlds teams, change this conversation? Does having fun, justify stacking a team, did it justify it in the case of level 3, 4 & 5 athletes winning an NCA jacket by competing level 2 (as I imagine they also had fun).

Sorry, I just feel disappointed :(

VERY well said!!!! i love it when people talk straight, instead of out of both sides of their mouth.

 

[fabulousity]

Alas! An ambiguous explanation to the madness, we haven't had one of those in a bit.

I think we are missing the point. Regardless if the crossovers have been there since yesterday, all season, or birth... That is not an accurate composite of the team that will be competing on that bid in April. These athletes, by virtue of USASF belong to one team only.

10 crossovers on 1 team is an absurd amount, total game changer. I know programs that don't utilize that many athletes across 20 teams!

The bid was won on merits of a different team. Does anyone not see how irresponsible this is? Should half of shooting stars be competing to get suns a paid bid? Take 10 girls from f5 to secure a bid for eclipse?

A very smart man on these boards said it best: this is like having someone take your SATs for you and getting you into Harvard, when in reality you can barely pass entrance exams for community college.

 

[Level5Mom]

Carrying on... does the reality that 1/3 of a team was never eligible to compete with the team at Worlds by virtue of their membership on other worlds teams, change this conversation? Does having fun, justify stacking a team, did it justify it in the case of level 3, 4 & 5 athletes winning an NCA jacket by competing level 2 (as I imagine they also had fun).

Sorry, I just feel disappointed :(

It doesn't change it at all. It really doesn't matter WHO did it, from WHAT gym they are from, and how many warm fuzzies you are supposed to feel after hearing the reasons (which I'm sure each team has). The fact is, it is completely legal. Does that make it right? That is up to each of us to decide. It sounds to me like it would overwhelmingly pass just based on the opinions of this thread, as long as it didn't get trumped by the final Board vote. If you think it is unethical, then vote accordingly. As long as there are loopholes there will always be people pushing the line, unfortunately. It makes for an eventual very very thick rulebook.

 

[cheer8]

It doesn't change it at all. It really doesn't matter WHO did it, from WHAT gym they are from, and how many warm fuzzies you are supposed to feel after hearing the reasons (which I'm sure each team has). The fact is, it is completely legal. Does that make it right? That is up to each of us to decide. It sounds to me like it would overwhelmingly pass just based on the opinions of this thread, as long as it didn't get trumped by the final Board vote. If you think it is unethical, then vote accordingly. As long as there are loopholes there will always be people pushing the line, unfortunately. It makes for an eventual very very thick rulebook.

Just wish all votes that were voted on stuck wether 49/50% vote... Thats another topic though sorry!

 

[Mo-Lissa]

This is a great discussion so far. We are all enjoying the insight and agenda. For purposes of argument. In response only to several inaccurate statements and insinuations:

CEA Medium Coed included 10 crossovers from SE and CoEd Elite all
Season, not for this bid winning event as this thread suggests. They adore this team and have enjoyed a very successful
regular season something that used to matter and should now. Worlds is one end of the year event, those that inhibit the happiness of their customer base solely for that purpose should
Take note of this example. The least scrutinized team at CEA has ironically enjoyed the most championship success and the kids have loved it for what it is a really fun team that doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. As a result my beloved veteran crossovers have been able to train for collegiate stunting in ways their resident team could not. They have passed on their traditions and work ethic to the up and coming generation of level 5 talent. This team was formed to train athletes not to "take" bids. They were brought to tears by both their at large bid wins. The opportunity for spots on this team has spawned an impressive display of skill progression across our program
And has given the worlds opportunity to three boys who in no way could afford all of the costs of a long season.
The 5 other paid bids were won without reliance on crossovers

This thread brings about many valid
Points, to which I will add: the current method
Of bid winning is broken and should be revamped by region.. To add legimate regional champions,To reinforce local competition and lower athlete cost.

Carry on ..

So after reading this I just have a couple questions..... Did you decline both of the at large bids, to give them to other programs at the competitions they were won at, since it was won by a just for fun team? Also, since it has given the worlds opportunity to three boys who in no way could afford all of the costs of a long season....if it is an at large bid it is still upwards of $700 how will that be paid for? Do the parents in your program get upset after paying all year and then their child being replace by these 3 boys who stepping in, in the middle of the season?? I just feel these are valid questions, spawning from your post. I have many friends that I respect in your program, but I thought I would ask since you put this out there?

 

[TheUltimateFan]

Has anyone even linked to this USASF meeting document that 5-6-7-8 posted? USASF HAS discussed solutions that would resolve much of what you have laid out as problems and solutions in this and the 2 other threads related to people abusing the rules.

USASF identified, proposed, discussed, designed and negotiated technologies and solutions and then the process died for no apparent reason documented here. WHY????
USASF.NET
....and names are named

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

Andre was on most of the conference calls, maybe he can shed some light on the situation as to why they stopped the talks.

 

[Deleted member 15]

It slowed to a crawl, but hasn't stopped. Concerns were who would and wouldn't have access to the data.

Looking further down the line since it's already been hinted at in one of the threads, regarding the idea of USASF EPs only allowing USASF members to compete at events. There aren't enough USASF member gym/athletes to know if that requirement would push EPs into the USASF or out. For many EPs the percentage of gyms attending their events that are USASF members isn't so high enough that they are willing to cut off the ones that aren't if they choose not to join the USASF.

I worked with an EP last season and less than 10% of the athletes that attended their events during the season were part of USASF member gyms. If the USASF EPs could only allow USASF member gyms to compete, it would have been a smarter business decision for them to leave the USASF and continue working with the 90% than to try to get the 90% to join the USASF.

 

[WorkToWin]

The best analogy I could think of is that no matter what the speed limit, I do my best to drive 5 miles under. Sure I have to leave a bit earlier and of course people think I am driving too slow. But I also don't get speeding tickets, don't get nervous when I see police staked out looking for speeders and get where I am going. Many more drive just the limit. They too get where they are going without fear of tickets. Still others play in that supposed 5 miles above the limit area. Now the nerves are little bit more on edge here but they assume that since it is not financially profitable to give a 5 mile over the limit ticket or that a lawyer could get it thrown out on speedometer errors they believe themselves to be safe. Yet there are many who drive above the limit no matter what until they get a ticket. They slow down for a few days then push it again. Their belief is that they wont be caught, it is worth the price of the ticket to get wherever they are going fast or if they do get a ticket they can argue their way out of it.

Thank God I don't have to drive behind you! :p