All-Star A Growing Issue... I.e. Crossovers On Worlds Teams (for Bid Obtaining Purposes)

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

Wow, this is just sad. When and how did competition become a win-at-all-costs dog fight? It seems like implosion is inevitable if something doesn't happen to take back control of this sport.

I don't think implosion will happen. Well, maybe the gyms doing this shady stuff will, but for the passionate, dedicated gym owners and coaches, we will stay alive and continue to thrive for many many more years.


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[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

I guess I look at this in a couple of ways - first, marketing. Some gyms apparently don't mind a lack of globes, as long as they can say "We had X number of teams that got bids to Worlds." This seems to be good enough business for them, and in that case, I suppose it's fine to have Worlds crossovers for bid purposes. Second, for the athletes on the team, some might not mind getting the "extra help," but it obviously puts them at a disadvantage, both mentally and athletically, at Worlds.

Haha.. We making history!! First program to ever have 35 teams at World's. Bahahaaa... Oh what some people will do to make themselves feel better.

Can Worlds go back to invitation only please?


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[TheUltimateFan]

I don't think implosion will happen. Well, maybe the gyms doing this shady stuff will, but for the passionate, dedicated gym owners and coaches, we will stay alive and continue to thrive for many many more years. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No doubt you will succeed - in everything that matters over the long run; instilling values like sportsmanship and hard work in your athletes, pride in achieving something fairly, and all those things that used to matter the most in this sport. Many parents still want those qualities in a program and insist on them for their children.

But the cheaters will be taking the trophies and jackets and the problem seems to be growing exponentially. How many different ways to cheat the system have been exposed in just one week. Three? And that just isn't fair to the players that follow the spirit and the letter of the rules.

In another post you said competitive cheer is in its infancy and I really want to agree with you. But we have been doing this for 19 years and to those of us who have seen the downward spiral the last few years, that infancy stage is well past.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

No doubt you will succeed - in everything that matters over the long run; instilling values like sportsmanship and hard work in your athletes, pride in achieving something fairly, and all those things that used to matter the most in this sport. Many parents still want those qualities in a program and insist on them for their children.

But the cheaters will be taking the trophies and jackets and the problem seems to be growing exponentially. How many different ways to cheat the system have been exposed in just one week. Three? And that just isn't fair to the players that follow the spirit and the letter of the rules.

In another post you said competitive cheer is in its infancy and I really want to agree with you. But we have been doing this for 19 years and to those of us who have seen the downward spiral the last few years, that infancy stage is well past.

In it's infancy compared to other sports like college football.... And the BCS is still a bad system and teams / coaches / players still cheat.

Anyone know when MLB, NFL, or NBA was established?


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[SuzyB]

How about this....if you get a bid and you are on the floor during the performance, you are "locked in" to that team. You cannot move to another team within your gym and except a bid. So, Susie is an amazing power tumbler, she competes on Team A, they get a bid (paid/partial/at large), and now she cannot cross to another team just to get a bid. If all 19 of Susie's teammates quit or get injured, you can substitute all 19 for Worlds, but they cannot have been on a team that already has a bid. This should have no impact on small or large gyms, as of course you can't cross at Worlds.

 

[Level5Mom]

I think the easiest and least painful solution is to drop down the number of subs/alternates to a reasonable number as BlueCat said. That eliminates massive crossing over of athletes for the purpose of obtaining Worlds bids. I'd like to see this added for the next rules cycle.

 

[quitthedrama]

Someone please feel free to PM me the names of the gyms who did this, preferably with levels/teams attached. My pitchfork has dulled this past week, and my torch needs some new fuel.

I would much rather see the names put out in public. The teams that sandbagged at NCA got discussed specifically and I think it created valuable discussion.

 

[BlueCat]

I think the easiest and least painful solution is to drop down the number of subs/alternates to a reasonable number as BlueCat said. That eliminates massive crossing over of athletes for the purpose of obtaining Worlds bids. I'd like to see this added for the next rules cycle.

I think that International teams probably need more than senior teams, but I agree that the alternate rule needs to be simpler and have fewer total alternates available.

Repeat my suggestion: At least 75% of the athletes taking the floor at Worlds had to perform with THAT team ON THE FLOOR at their bid event. Everyone on the floor must be eligible (and not locked to another gym.) Period.

Team photo (showing faces) taken at every bid event immediately prior or after the team performs. This can be used at Worlds for verification if necessary.

Easy to understand, easy to administer. No "must be a registered member" at the time. This is too vague. No "up to 3 wild cards, but up to 10 that were on the floor with another team from the same program." That is too hard to track and is too big an advantage for the mega-programs.

 

[DJ]

BlueCat that's great for Worlds - but the problem would still exist of teams using athletes from teams with bids already to secure more bids. Right?

 

[NoOneSpecial]

Why can't we stipulate that replacements are for injured/quitting athletes. Don't leave it open for the possibility of athletes crossing over to secure bids and then replacing.

Rules should be set based on the norm for gyms across the board not just those few choice gyms. Find a way to work and grow within the framework.

 

[cheerisgood]

and still, nobody names the program that has started this all.......

 

[redsmom]

I generally like BlueCat 's suggestion. I just think for the non-international teams the 75% is too low. That still allows a team to cross 5, 7 and 9 stronger athletes to a small, medium and large team respectively. So in the example fabulousity gave weather girls could still use 7 F5 athletes to win a paid bid over Tsunami. I think folks would have an issue with that, I would and I bleed black and blue!

 

[redsmom]

and still, nobody names the program that has started this all.......

If someone decides to call out programs, I hope they do it in another thread. A productive conversation is going on here and as soon as teams get called out we lose that focus.

 

[DJ]

and still, nobody names the program that has started this all.......

I don't think the thread and issue can sustain the drama of identifying the 3 programs that have done it over the past several years.

 

[cheerisgood]

I don't think the thread and issue can sustain the drama of identifying the 3 programs that have done it over the past several years.

well i do think that the most recent scenario is certainly the most blatent and ridiculous. some people will do anything to win i guess. as a parent, i'd certainly be looking for a new program to be a part of.