All-Star A Night With The Popes.

[Mamarazzi]

I will counter, as devils advocate, with two questions:
Were other teams listed as exhibition elsewhere on the document?

If others are to be believed, and they were told NOT to go as exhibition, but to compete and it would be fine, how does that impact this situation? As if they had been allowed to exhibition seeing as they had no competition anyway...

I didn't fine-toothed-comb the doc, but no, I didn't see any other teams listed as exhibition on the schedule. However, all teams received placements on the results. And yes, one of the teams was in their division alone.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I didn't fine-toothed-comb the doc, but no, I didn't see any other teams listed as exhibition on the schedule. However, all teams received placements on the results. And yes, one of the teams was in their division alone.

Wasn't sure if you knew off-hand. Thanks for that!

 

[Mamarazzi]

I will counter, as devils advocate, with two questions:
Were other teams listed as exhibition elsewhere on the document?

If others are to be believed, and they were told NOT to go as exhibition, but to compete and it would be fine, how does that impact this situation? As if they had been allowed to exhibition seeing as they had no competition anyway...

Out of curiosity, and you may not know, but then, you might...If a team goes as exhibition, do they have to pay comp fees?

 

[kristenthegreat]

Out of curiosity, and you may not know, but then, you might...If a team goes as exhibition, do they have to pay comp fees?

Truthfully, I have no idea. I suppose it depends on if you go in to exhibition from the start or if you go in to compete, only to have nobody in your division.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Not to fan flames, but to answer your question, if you look at the Cheersport results, and at the schedule, all the teams the Mom listed her athlete as being "on" for that comp, received placements. None listed as exhibition. If you want me to post the links to each division's results, and the link to the schedule, I will, but y'all can Google just like I did.

Thank you. I'm on my phone (always) so it's hard to look at docs - I don't actually want to download the Cheersport results to my phone. :D

I will counter, as devils advocate, with two questions:
Were other teams listed as exhibition elsewhere on the document?

If others are to be believed, and they were told NOT to go as exhibition, but to compete and it would be fine, how does that impact this situation? As if they had been allowed to exhibition seeing as they had no competition anyway...

If the ONE version of the story is to be believed and they were told NOT to go as exhibition it makes the situation actually a big deal. Because 4 teams got jackets, banners, and a Cheersport National Champion title. That means some other team, somewhere is OWED those things.

It also means I'd like them to stop saying "The last team was an exhibition, so it doesn't count" because, and I'm not sure how much more clearly this can be stated, or how much more clearly "they" can continue to completely ignore MomOf2ThatsMe and me... If you receive a title and a prize, then that is NOT exhibitioning. It's COMPETING. Plain and simple. Just because no one else was in the division doesn't matter. There's still another banner in the gym, another title to be bragged about, and more jackets on CEA athletes that belong on someone else. That's what "the big deal" is. One of those 4 divisions should have competed without this girl.

Now here's my real confusion. If there was no one else in the division, and they were "throwing doubles" and competing what has basically been deemed an illegal routine for YR5 (I get it, it's a chance to show your real skills, etc) then:
1. Why did they need this little girl so badly - since they were going to win no matter what?
2. Why did they level this team down to restricted when it obviously wasn't? Just so they could enter all 4 divisions and not compete against themselves? And to guarantee themselves a title and jackets in at least that division? Even without the little girl competing 4 times that is sandbagging at its finest (not against the rules, but tacky and still "cheating" in most people's eyes).

If guaranteeing themselves a win and guaranteeing they didn't have to compete against themselves wasn't the reason, then what was the reason for putting a team out as RESTRICTED and throwing doubles? (and for the record I'm harping on this because CEADAD05 brought it up - as if them throwing doubles helped, when it really just makes this whole thing look shadier). To be perfectly honest when I was first told on Saturday to look at this, I thought "what? Why? I don't care". Now I care because the supposed answers and explanations are leaving me with more questions than I started with.

What I really care about is that someone is owed some jackets and a title (and a banner). And if I was a gym owner of any 2nd place team in any of those divisions I'd be screaming for someone's head on a platter (I don't know that they're not, I assume they are).

 

[CoachTamara]

Out of curiosity, and you may not know, but then, you might...If a team goes as exhibition, do they have to pay comp fees?

Obviously this depends on the EP, but last year my half year team did an exhibition and we paid competition fees. For most of the companies we contacted, the cost to exhibition was the same as it was to compete. For a few it was discounted since they did not receive trophies, sweatshirts, etc., but they still paid and got a plaque.

 

[Mclovin]

This is directly from the USASF website:

CROSSOVERS
An individual will not be permitted to crossover from one program to another within the same event (Exception: An athlete from one
gym may crossover to one additional gym’s Level 6 team provided (s)he meets the age requirement.
For the 2012-13 season, an all-star cheerleader is limited to crossing over to 2 (two) additional cheer teams from their gym per
competition. Therefore, an athlete may compete on one team and crossover to two more teams from the same gym during the
competition.
An event producer may choose to be more restrictive than the rules above for crossovers limiting the number of teams an athlete may
crossover to further; however an event producer may not be less restrictive than this.
Crossover limitations above do not include athletes that crossover from cheer to dance.

I do not want to put a dog in this fight, but wanted to clarify what the actual rule says... It does not say "compete" with 2 additional teams. It says "crossover" to no more than 2 additiional teams. I think they have made it clear that it doesn't matter if those teams exhibitioned or competed. Crossing over is crossing over.

Also, to clarify the question about exhibitioning...you can still be scored when you exhibition. But if your team exhibitions, they will not receive a "national champion" gift. At most, individual medals/trophies will be given to the participants of the team exhibitioning.

 

[kristenthegreat]

For the record:
Large Junior 5- CEA placed 2nd. Behind Rays, ahead of PCM.
Junior Small Coed 5- CEA Placed 1st, ahead of ASR, Greensboro, and Flying High Raven.
Youth 5- CEA beat Wonderkatz
Youth R5- CEA was alone.

In Youth R5, they were scored. HOWEVER- the Wordpress doc that lists the results does NOT mention ANY teams doing an exhibition. Also, these results are not DIRECTLY listed on their results page like the other competitions, where it COULD list teams who did an exhibition. Which seems a little odd to me. What bothers me about this- it seems like this could have been legitimately done (and had intended to be done that way), but they were told it would be fine. Cheersport gave them the go-ahead to 'compete' that last team, which in my mind makes them just as guilty. Anyone know if they've been sanctioned?

I'm vaguely reminded of that video of that Mini team who went level 3 for one competition because they had NO competitors. Those who had tucks threw them, they did a couple harder skills not in their level..

 

[kristenthegreat]

This is directly from the USASF website:

CROSSOVERS
For the 2012-13 season, an all-star cheerleader is limited to crossing over to 2 (two) additional cheer teams from their gym per
competition. Therefore, an athlete may compete on one team and crossover to two more teams from the same gym during the
competition.
.

It also says that an event producer is not allowed to be less restrictive. So if they gave her permission, should they not also receive some type of fine?

 

[gymrat12]

It also says that an event producer is not allowed to be less restrictive. So if they gave her permission, should they not also receive some type of fine?

This also says 2012-2013... unless the rules stated the exact same thing (which I am totally unaware as I can hardly keep up with current rules) last year. Sounds like this was an add on "clarification" for this season... unless I'm totally wrong, than in that case :wasntme:

 

[Mclovin]

It also says that an event producer is not allowed to be less restrictive. So if they gave her permission, should they not also receive some type of fine?

Oh trust me...I think CS should be given an even greater punishment than CEA did...I do not place blame solely on CEA. I blame CSP for even thinking about putting an athlete on 4 teams...but I blame CS for shoving it under a rug and telling them it was okay. IT IS NOT OKAY TO BEND THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!! Both parties equally to blame.

 

[Mclovin]

This also says 2012-2013... unless the rules stated the exact same thing (which I am totally unaware as I can hardly keep up with current rules) last year. Sounds like this was and add on "clarification" for this season... unless I'm totally wrong, than in that case :wasntme:

It was the same rule last year. I just couldn't find last years rules on their website.

 

[gymrat12]

It was the same rule last year. I just couldn't find last years rules on their website.

Ok... the "for the 2012-2013 season" part in bold threw me for a loop, I thought they typical put that when it was a clarification... just now putting 2 and 2 together that you had bolded it :oops: Oh boy, guess I shouldn't have skipped the coffee today... sorry!

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Oh trust me...I think CS should be given an even greater punishment than CEA did...I do not place blame solely on CEA. I blame CSP for even thinking about putting an athlete on 4 teams...but I blame CS for shoving it under a rug and telling them it was okay. IT IS NOT OKAY TO BEND THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!! Both parties equally to blame.

This. This this this. All of this.

I'm confused as to why you would even put an athlete on 4 teams, even if "most" of your competitions weren't all teams. If even ONE was going to be all teams, then having her on 4 teams should have never happened in the first place. And I agree - Cheersport is equally, if not more, to blame.

I'm curious if they've been sanctioned or fined or anything with regards to this?

 

[King]

Ok... the "for the 2012-2013 season" part in bold threw me for a loop, I thought they typical put that when it was a clarification... just now putting 2 and 2 together that you had bolded it :oops: Oh boy, guess I shouldn't have skipped the coffee today... sorry!

The document is updated for each new upcoming season. All the stuff in yellow is what was changed from the prior year. Nothing in the crossover section is in yellow from the document.