All-Star Age Changes?

[FamousxMindset]

What does any of that have to do with what we were discussing, age ranges? I am done here as you aren't looking for a discussion, just an argument.

We are just oil and vinegar lmao.

Also you quoted me I had zero intention to even converse with you, I was only offering my input as someone who works in the industry.

 

[Natalia5]

Saw this on twitter:
That's literally sticking a freshman in high school with a kindergartener....

Which is why a lot of 10-14 yo who are ready to say ditch dance after 7 years for cheer decide to play another sport instead of pursuing AS Cheer where many would love to do AS Cheer and/or interested around that age. Even if you look for tumbling classes most of them are for 3-5 yo good luck finding one for tween aged beginners. IMO i think the tween market seem to be ignored because those who are interested look into it and see that is seem to be geared towards the 3-5 yo beginner and/or someone who has some cheer skills. Which is sad because some small gym AS programs and some large gym AS Prep programs could get a boost from this demographic alone.

 

[cheer25mom]

Which is why a lot of 10-14 yo who are ready to say ditch dance after 7 years for cheer decide to play another sport instead of pursuing AS Cheer where many would love to don AS Cheer and/or interested around that age. Even if you look for tumbling classes most of them are for 3-5 yo good luck finding one for tween aged beginners. IMO i think the tween market seem to be ignored because those who are interested look into it and see that is seem to be geared towards the 3-5 yo beginner and/or someone who has some cheer skills. Which is sad because some small gym AS programs and some large gym AS Prep programs could get a boost from this demographic alone.

I think t his is 100% true, and often true of many sports. I am seeing it at my CP's dance studio. We have a large influx of tween aged beginners this year and the studio had a tough time placing them. You cannot put them in a class of 13 year olds who are in their 3rd year of pointe and have been dancing 10 years, but you cannot put them in with 6-7 year olds and expect to keep them. Their answer has been to form a select group of classes in limited areas of dance to appeal to them, mostly lyrical and hip hop as those are easier to pick up. I think that prep level cheer could be an opportunity to tap this market if used correctly. A junior or senior prep level team with a dedicated tumbling block for just those kids.

 

[Natalia5]

IMHO I don't think giving 5 as a bottom age is going to make much of a difference in how gyms choose teams, but I do know that raising it to 8, or 11 for Senior would have definitely affected small gyms ability to make teams.

I may have missed a specific part in the new age grid info as I only checked out the grid but maybe they should specify which rules would apply to small or large gyms specifically. Just say this is the new rule but this is the exception for small gyms instead of having this blanket rule.

 

[Natalia5]

I think t his is 100% true, and often true of many sports. I am seeing it at my CP's dance studio. We have a large influx of tween aged beginners this year and the studio had a tough time placing them. You cannot put them in a class of 13 year olds who are in their 3rd year of pointe and have been dancing 10 years, but you cannot put them in with 6-7 year olds and expect to keep them. Their answer has been to form a select group of classes in limited areas of dance to appeal to them, mostly lyrical and hip hop as those are easier to pick up. I think that prep level cheer could be an opportunity to tap this market if used correctly. A junior or senior prep level team with a dedicated tumbling block for just those kids.

Preach.

 

[cheergoogle]

I think t his is 100% true, and often true of many sports. I am seeing it at my CP's dance studio. We have a large influx of tween aged beginners this year and the studio had a tough time placing them. You cannot put them in a class of 13 year olds who are in their 3rd year of pointe and have been dancing 10 years, but you cannot put them in with 6-7 year olds and expect to keep them. Their answer has been to form a select group of classes in limited areas of dance to appeal to them, mostly lyrical and hip hop as those are easier to pick up. I think that prep level cheer could be an opportunity to tap this market if used correctly. A junior or senior prep level team with a dedicated tumbling block for just those kids.

My CP12 took a season off from cheer this year to mentally rest and try recreational dance. This was the issue she faced. We tried out a couple studios. One placed her in level 2-3 dance with 6-8 year olds and the other had a beginner Tween/Teen ballet/jazz class for 10-14 year olds. She ultimately chose the class with the more age appropriate kids and after 9 years of all star cheer (competing level 4-5) she found the pace of this dance class excruciatingly slow. The younger class probably would have matched up better with skill level but she felt self conscious towering over the young kids.

I can definitely sympathize with any kids joining the sport late and having issue with such wide age gaps for junior and senior teams.

 

[cheer25mom]

My CP12 took a season off from cheer this year to mentally rest and try recreational dance. This was the issue she faced. We tried out a couple studios. One placed her in level 2-3 dance with 6-8 year olds and the other had a beginner Tween/Teen ballet/jazz class for 10-14 year olds. She ultimately chose the class with the more age appropriate kids and after 9 years of all star cheer (competing level 4-5) she found the pace of this dance class excruciatingly slow. The younger class probably would have matched up better with skill level but she felt self conscious towering over the young kids.

I can definitely sympathize with any kids joining the sport late and having issue with such wide age gaps for junior and senior teams.

Its a difficult position to be in. Our studio chose lyrical and hip hop over ballet and jazz because they wouldn't have to go as slowly with progressing kids. Lyrical and Hip hop are less rigid and kids can progress faster.

 

[Adrirocks]

I can go and find credile scholarly articles that will argue the exact opposite. and I did just that.

"He concludes that age-mixed play offers opportunities for learning and development not present in play among those close in age, permitting younger children to learn more from older playmates than they could from playing with only their peers. In age-mixed play, the more sophisticated behavior of older children offers role models for younger children, who also typically receive more emotional support from older kids than from those near their own age. Age-mixed play also permits older children to learn by teaching and to practice nurturance and leadership; and they are often inspired by the imagination and creativity of their younger playmates." from Psychology Today

"The problem is that age segregation works well for students in the middle of the group in terms of ability. However, those who are developing faster or who are older must be pulled back to the pace of the whole group and are often frustrated by their inability to move forward; those who are developing more slowly or are younger may feel left behind and lost." Headsup.org via
Charles D. Bernstein (Ph.D)


"5 UNEXPECTED BENEFITS OF MIXED AGE MONTESSORI CLASSROOMS; More effective teaching, More effective learning time, Greater interest in learning, Stronger foundation and unlimited learning potential, and Leadership skills." By Ms. Marty Shepard

"Children today may have few opportunities to be around children younger or older than they are, especially in a fairly informal environment. Managed well, an OSHC service gives children many of the same opportunities that an extended family might provide. Children can learn so much from older children, and older children can gain confidence and satisfaction from the opportunity to ‘teach’ younger children and demonstrate, often to an admiring audience, their skills and talents. In an environment that is supportive, older children can increase their selfawareness through opportunities that come from being around younger children. They may gain some insights into how they used to be when they were younger. They can also come to appreciate the strengths and wisdom of younger children."

I really wish I still had access to my University academical journals because I know the list can just go on, but this is what I was able to get from Google in five minutes. This is NO one size fits all answer for our athletes not by Doctors, you, me , or USASF. There will be exceptions and out-liers to ever possible scenario.

The blog post on mixed age classrooms would not be considered an acceptable source for any academic paper. It doesn't have any actual evidence linked to it. Additionally, its not coming from an objective source like an academic journal its coming from a montessori school site. Of course they will say that their method is the most effective. If it's a summary of an academic paper they should have the actual paper linked. Even then, three grade levels is not as big of an age range as what can now be a junior cheer team. I would need to see a couple different studies confirming the findings becasue one study does not make an entire theory.

There article "The Special Value of Children's Age-Mixed Play" was peer reviewed and some of the findings were interesting but I did notice that most of the studies they cited looked at pre-schoolers with elementary school siblings or classrooms with 2-3 grade levels. Their work at the school was interesting but this passage in particular raised some questions for me as to how it would apply to cheer. ". The older players reminded the younger ones of what they had to do. “Hold your cards up so others can’t see them.” “Pay attention.” “Try to remember what cards have already been played.” “Think ahead; if you play that card what will Johnny do?” Does your average 13 year old on a junior team really want to be responsible for reminding a 6 or 7 year old teammate to focus? I can imagine constantly having to tell a younger teammate to focus would grow quite tedious and affect how the team bonds. I could see older teammates starting to feel more like babysitters than teammates. In a mixed 1-3 class the students would most likely be 6-9 and for all intents and purposes they can be considered each others peers. I can think of no situation where a 6 year old and a 13 year old could be considered peers. They are at completely different developmental stages and have next to nothing in common socially. The authors argue that having to constantly remind and teach younger children in the group helps older members develop leadership skills and while that could be true it does change how the team bonds. The older members are more likely to see the little kids as students or responsibilities than equals. I would be interested to see a similar study done on a sports team rather than in the classroom becasue I would imagine the dynamic would be quite different. Of course, I can't think of another youth sport where 6 year olds and 13 year olds can be placed on the same team.

 

[SL&AM]

All I'm saying is that if adding bottom ages to the age grid was going to cause an erupting volcano for 60% of the programs in this country, perhaps USASF should work on better ways on sustaining this sport so that an age grid change (which didn't seem that sudden since the proposed age grid changes had been floating around since CP started 4 seasons ago) isn't an Armageddon.

 

[Lablover]

I guess my daughter's been lucky. We've had young girls on her youth teams (like 5-6 years old) and there are young girls (7-8-9) on our high level junior teams and I've seen zero issues. The younger girls pay attention, perform beautifully and don't act out at practice. And all the girls get along-- not saying an 8yo and 14yo are having sleepovers but they converse, laugh and have fun together at practice and competitions. I will say there are multiple younger girls (typically flyers) so there isn't a lone 7 year old on a Jr team. So the younger kids have their peer group of 7-9 year olds to bond with and socialize with outside of practice.

 

[dat.jpp]

Last year on my J2 team, the youngest girl on the team was 9. Everyone else was 11-15 (I was the oldest).

 

[Texas Mom]

The USASF website has not posted the changes yet on the age grid so does anybody know if they are changing the sizes back to original and doing away with the x-small, small, medium?

 

[cheer25mom]

The USASF website has not posted the changes yet on the age grid so does anybody know if they are changing the sizes back to original and doing away with the x-small, small, medium?

I certainly hope NOT. I know of gyms that have already formed their worlds teams based on the new sizes. They are smaller gyms and it would be devastating to their ability to be competitive for the sizes to change now.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

I certainly hope NOT. I know of gyms that have already formed their worlds teams based on the new sizes. They are smaller gyms and it would be devastating to their ability to be competitive for the sizes to change now.

I'm curious how the change would affect worlds team? Xtra small wasn't going to be a division there, were the ranges that much different?

 

[cheer25mom]

I'm curious how the change would affect worlds team? Xtra small wasn't going to be a division there, were the ranges that much different?

Just enough to be an issue, particularly with number of boys. As of now, usasf lists xtra small level 5 as a division.


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