All-Star Amazing Level 2 Teams?

[GreatWhite92]

I'm afraid it already has. There have been several teams that drop the entire team a level or two to win NCA. (thus the compete at your NCA level previously in the year rule). I'm curious at all of this outrage towards Rockstar when they are definitely not the first and certainly not the last to do this very thing.

Because someone stood up and actually said something about it.
I assume that if more people start standing up and calling out teams, more outrage will occur.
Hopefully all the outrage will discourage teams from doing this.
And since this team has already been outed I think the outrage sets a good example for teams thinking about doing this...

 

[socratesofcheer]

TheUltimateFan GreatWhite92

I understand both of your points. But, here's my question(s).
Just about every "small" gym does this very thing with their teams, why is it ok? (I'm referring to the above level kids on a lower level team)
There is a person on this thread from a gym that has won Cheersport the last 2 years and has done this very thing with her team (according to her posts) yet no one appears to be upset. Does the fact that Rockstar/Sparks are a little more well known make it more offensive?

 

[GreatWhite92]

TheUltimateFan GreatWhite92

I understand both of your points. But, here's my question(s).
Just about every "small" gym does this very thing with their teams, why is it ok? (I'm referring to the above level kids on a lower level team)
There is a person on this thread from a gym that has won Cheersport the last 2 years and has done this very thing with her team (according to her posts) yet no one appears to be upset. Does the fact that Rockstar/Sparks are a little more well known make it more offensive?

I don't know about the other teams in this thread, but if I small gym competed level two with mostly level 3,4 and 5 athletes then I would be upset too.

If the majority is level two than if you have a couple of higher level athletes to fill out the team than fine. We have asked several time the numbers of level 2,3,4, and 5 athletes with rockstar at least and every time there is no reply which leads me to believe there is more higher level athletes than there are level 2 athletes which is why I have problem.

 

[GreatWhite92]

If I could get a true number count right this second that said we had x number of lvl2, x number of lvl 3 and so on...

and the majority of athletes were level 2, than I would stop posting.

 

[katzgirl96]

heres our junior 2! lemmeknow whatcha think! for cheersport we added in a another switch, so now its lib, lib, stretch!

That little boy is amazing had my attention the whole time by far one of the best junior 2 teams I have seen they are one talented group of kids

 

[RockstarCheer]

I don't know about the other teams in this thread, but if I small gym competed level two with mostly level 3,4 and 5 athletes then I would be upset too.

If the majority is level two than if you have a couple of higher level athletes to fill out the team than fine. We have asked several time the numbers of level 2,3,4, and 5 athletes with rockstar at least and every time there is no reply which leads me to believe there is more higher level athletes than there are level 2 athletes which is why I have problem.

I just Pm'd you..

 

[TheUltimateFan]

There is one thing that could have stopped this dead - and whether he believes it or not, I was hoping this is the answer Scott would come back with. If the team were made up of level 2 and 3 cheerleaders, maybe equally proportioned, not so bad. If it were made up of level 2, 3 and 4 cheerleaders and the large majority of them were level 2, not so bad.

But they were not willing to state the disposition of the team. People said they knew the number of athletes at level 3 or above was significant, including at least one level 5 cheerleader. The response that came back was a spiel about how this athlete or that only had X skills in tumbling but not in stunting and another had this level skills across the board except this skill (all 3 or above), but not once did they deny that the largest number of athletes were level 3 or above.

Dropping a team down one level to compete is still not acceptable. But the impression of this team was that these athletes weren't even close to Level 2.

The second part was the statement that this was done "for the experience". That was as transparent as you can get. If it was for the experience, then why not compete them Level 3 - somewhere in the middle of the skill range. Having tryouts, creating this team specifically for Cheersport and NCA and placing them at the lowest end of their combined skillset....the motivation is clearly not "experience"

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

I can tell you that if you have the ability to read you can go back and read all my posts. I've already explained this whole situation in this post. Maybe you should go read again. The facts are there and I totally stand by our decision. What we did is totally within the rules and my right as a gym owner. I did what was best for my business and my customers. I could care less what your opinions are because they do not affect my business. You're entitled to your opinion and that is all. If you are so opinionated and passionate about the subject I suggest you write a rule and propose it to the USASF. Have a nice day! :-)

You and your "business" are detrimental to the sport that the rest of us love and respect. What some of us work so hard for, you and a few other "bad apples" are making a spectacle of. I'm saddened that you put your business in front of your sport. The worse part is that some gym owners don't see that ruining the spirit of competition is ruining our sport and with no sport you have no gym. I'm happy for you and your ego. But as for your integrity, I'm sorry that you are in the same profession as me. Hopefully, one day we will have a rule that stops unsportsmanlike decisions like this from being made.


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[OC All-Star Mommy]

does anyone have any videos of ABSOLUTELY AMAZING, jaw on the floor, creative, level 2 teams? i coach 2 level 2 teams and i would like to see how my girls and compare to some of the best in the country!!

OC All Stars Camo is pretty amazing for a mini level 2 team. They are undefeated so far this season and have won 2 national championships this month. I am excited to see what is in store for this group of girls in the years to come!

 

[OC All-Star Mommy]

https://www.facebook.com/ajax/flash/expand_inline.php?v=3456790544976&target_div=uxs1lp_84&playertype=permalink&max_width=403&max_height=403&context=timelineSingle

OC Mini Camo at Jamz Nationals in Las Vegas

 

[cinderella]

12) We lose to teams at every competition who we know aren't competing at their true tumbling level
13) We beat teams at every competition that aren't competing at their true tumbling level.
14) There are teams that compete down an entire season, that aren't their true tumbling level and compete all season like this. Unless you go into every person's gym and find out what each team is doing, then all these teams are sandbagging.
15) If you don't like the USASF rules then go do something about it. Whatever the rules are we will continue to follow them.
You are entitled to your opinion and that's what the message boards are for. But the minute you try to speak something inaccurate about Rockstar or harm our business with rumors I will adamantly defend it.

Much of your justification for your actions really bothers me. Seems to lack logic. #12-14 sounds as childish as saying, "Susie smokes and breaks curfew, so it's okay if I do too!" Just because sandbagging does happen, does not make it okay. And as for #15, the USASF and other competition companies are constantly changing the rules to prevent this exact thing from happening. But because the rights of small gyms must be protected, certain gyms tend to abuse the system. Case and point: your Junior Level "2" team. I think it's pretty obvious the cheer community is trying to do something about it. That's what's infuriating to a lot of us, new rules are put in place, but a couple bad apples always seem to come along and spoil the bunch. I'm not sure what rumors you're talking about, but even you, yourself, have made perfectly clear that a team from your gym was competing at a lower level than the majority of the athletes' true level. And, bottom line, that is wrong.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

What if that level 5 girl you are calling out is really just a beginner in the whole Cheerleading industry? Never backspotd before, and only 2nd year flying. Wow...and just happens to be able to do a backhandspring. I think that the whole situation has been blown out of proporation by one individual that wanted to make a stink. From what I can tell, there are plenty of teams out there that look like they may be stacked. Regardless of what anybody may feel is the "rule".....all teams of a division have to perform within a guideline. From what I have seen, other teams totally out weigh in stunt difficulty than the team you question. They are just clean. Not sure if that takes years of experience or just some great coaching?

They are clean bc the muscle composition/ body control of a level 3,4 athlete is waaay more advanced than a level 2. So jumps, transitions, dance will all be done cleaner than true level 2 teams. Most cheerleading competitions come down to execution and i'd take the coordination of a level 3 athlete over level 2 anyway. You can try to rationalize that my 20 kids with bhs but not strong enough to snap down with tight legs and your 20 kids with bhs tucks are on the same level bc the rules are the same for us, but that'd mean you know nothing about biomechanics and physics so I wouldn't try.


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[kristenthegreat]

Let me put it this way-
I am 22. I have weak wrists, a bad lower back due to a variety of physical problems, and the hips of an 80 year old woman. I can still base an extension, and base it well. I expect levels 2-5 can do it as well.

 

[cheeeeer93]

I think the biggest problem with these kind of situations is the message it sends. I have very obviously competed against a sandbagged team that has dropped an entire level. It even said their old level in their music. So my teammates who aren't as into cheer as I am even figured it out and after the second or third time they beat us were asking "Why can't we drop a level too?" my team isn't terrible by any means but if this team can drop a level and win, who's to say we can't do the same thing?
Now this team didn't exactly do that but I am a firm believer in pushing a team to its potential. If that means a not so great level 3 over an NCA winning level 2, so be it. Especially if it is a team formed for "the experience".

 

[CrazyCheerMomof1]

It's pretty pathetic that this is continuing this long. I would say stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and focus on making your CP perform the best to their ability. Because last time I check being clean and tight is not something that is only taught at the level 5 level. Grow up and move on. It's over.