All-Star Asga Survey Results And Letter To Board

[Rudags]

I agree. Im still waiting for the surveys the USASF and EP's did... Also apologies regarding specific issues with guidelines, and an apology of how these rules were released. Each day that goes by causes more and more people to lose respect in the process and the organization. Someone (more than likely the IEP's) are sitting on a MASSIVE GOLD MINE right now.

 

[yojaehs]

Respondents indicate that they have seen very few injuries resulting from elite-level tumbling. THIS IS COMPLETE BS.

First - Out of the 217 people that responded, how many have athletes that are capable of the elite level tumbling??
Next - it says people reported anywhere from 0-57 injuries. If one person is reporting 57 injuries, that is way too many.

Lastly - If out of 198 programs/owners, the average person reported 3.4 injuries because of elite tumbling, that is A LOT. How many athletes from each program are even attempting this sort of tumbling. At a gym like Cheer Athletics, CEA, World Cup, etc where there are more than 30 kids attempting this type of tumbling that number is still high. 10% of athletes attempting elite-tumbling are getting injured.

I bet that less than 10% of elite gymnasts are injured. I bet less than 10% of any elite pro sport have injuries like this.

I took the survey and in 4 season we have had 3 torn ACL's, all 3 were doing fulls. My gym has had ZERO athletes injured working any of the skills being removed. Of the 74 athletes that will be attending Worlds from my gym and est 30 work these elite skills (that's almost half). Not all will be competed because I don't feel that they are ready. We have had injuries, walking off of the floor, dancing on the flat mat, stunt related injuries etc. Not ONE working or competing the elite skills as the survey asked.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

How are we defining an "injury" ?

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I took the survey and in 4 season we have had 3 torn ACL's, all 3 were doing fulls. My gym has had ZERO athletes injured working any of the skills being removed. Of the 74 athletes that will be attending Worlds from my gym and est 30 work these elite skills (that's almost half). Not all will be competed because I don't feel that they are ready. We have had injuries, walking off of the floor, dancing on the flat mat, stunt related injuries etc. Not ONE working or competing the elite skills as the survey asked.

That is fantastic. I don't think all of the gyms have your same level of coaching and conditioning then.

I would say that your gym is in the 1% doing things right. I can venture to say that the amount of injuries at your gym would be deemed as acceptable.

 

[idrive]

I agree. Im still waiting for the surveys the USASF and EP's did... Also apologies regarding specific issues with guidelines, and an apology of how these rules were released. Each day that goes by causes more and more people to lose respect in the process and the organization. Someone (more than likely the IEP's) are sitting on a MASSIVE GOLD MINE right now.

I too am in sales/marketing and from experience can say there is nothing that will drive away a customers faster than trying to force feed them what YOU think they need.

 

[yojaehs]

That is fantastic. I don't think all of the gyms have your same level of coaching and conditioning then.

I would say that your gym is in the 1% doing things right. I can venture to say that the amount of injuries at your gym would be deemed as acceptable.

I would agree that we are fortunate but more to my point is that I feel injuries are occurring from under rotated fulls/doubles with NO skills before them. Which the new rules do not address, honestly that is more of my concern. I truly think that these new rules will INCREASE these injuries. I feel that the emphasis on that ONE full/dub will increase, pushing unqualified coaches to push for those skills harder than they already do. I do hear you in that I don't think all answers are "official" bc this was done with a small ratio of gyms, I feel that many that took the test were prob the better trained coaches that want to speak out. I wish there were a way to evaluate ALL gyms. But like UltimateRudags this is a start.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I took the survey and in 4 season we have had 3 torn ACL's, all 3 were doing fulls. My gym has had ZERO athletes injured working any of the skills being removed. Of the 74 athletes that will be attending Worlds from my gym and est 30 work these elite skills (that's almost half). Not all will be competed because I don't feel that they are ready. We have had injuries, walking off of the floor, dancing on the flat mat, stunt related injuries etc. Not ONE working or competing the elite skills as the survey asked.

In two years I have neen here we have had 1 ACL with the athlete doing a full at the end of Summer. Upon investigation it was discovered that said athlete had actually torn it the year previous doing jumps at High School and never had it properly examined. Therefore her knee was already weakened prior to this skill, which she landed perfectly. Also had a middle school cheerleader lock her legs on a spotted BHS and tore ACL, MCL and Meniscus. The majority of our injuries are high school related cheer or other sports.

Doing the elite skills being removed - zero inuries. Not one. Of course we are a way smaller program but here the athletes that can do those are between 5 - 10. We carefully monitor the amount of reps they do and tell them to stop the second we observe them getting tired or throwing these skills with bad technique.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Doing the elite skills being removed - zero inuries. Not one. Of course we are a way smaller program but here the athletes that can do those are between 5 - 10. We carefully monitor the amount of reps they do and tell them to stop the second we observe them getting tired or throwing these skills with bad technique.

Again that is fantastic. And you are also in the 1%.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Few quick questions.
Do we know how many Coach and Owner members there are in the USASF? Just trying to get a perspective on what percentage of people actually had an input to this.

Second question - How many people that are in favor of this rule have actually joined your page and are involved in this movement? Coming from a marketing background, Surveys are a good indicator of what people don't like, but don't often showcase what is great. For everyone 1 person that says something positive in a survey, you usually have up to 10 that are there to express their dissatisfaction. It is the nature of the beast that those who are happy don't feel the need to speak up.

With all due respect, I think
a). We don't have any of their "statistics", at least this is a start!
b). Since they didn't bother to get an idea/input from the rest of the allstar world (and have no perspective of what percentage of the people actually had input into their decision...oh wait, yes we do, it was less than a handful right?!) and just assumed what they thought (or really wanted) was the best solution, doesn't make it a majority of what people want either.
c). Look how quickly the ASGA was able to garner support, attend to the issues at hand, etc. (especially with worlds around the corner), come up with an independent survey (yeah, it's not going to be 100 percent accurate, but it's something!) and rally to support one another in such a SHORT period of time. I think that says a lot about those coaches and gym owners.. A lot of positive feedback, getting back to the roots of why they're all here in the first place, which is their love of cheer! They've gotten more accomplished in less than a week than some associations *cough* *cough*

 

[AndyT_T]

I think we definitely need a more concrete definition of "injured" in the survey.
There is a very big difference between Osgood-schlatter's or a sprained ankle and a torn ACL/MCL (trust me).

Before we start getting percentages on "injured" people in elite level tumbling I think we first need to decide what constitutes an injury. Is it based on rehab time? Severity? Pain level? Hospitalization?

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I think that injuries should also be measured for the following -
Athletes who have the elites skills that have gotten injured. If you have a double punch double but got injured throwing a two to full, it can be argued that the wear and tear on your body from doing the bounding twisting skills played a large part in the injury in the straight full.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I think we definitely need a more concrete definition of "injured" in the survey.
There is a very big difference between Osgood-schlatter's or a sprained ankle and a torn ACL/MCL (trust me).

Before we start getting percentages on "injured" people in elite level tumbling I think we first need to decide what constitutes an injury. Is it based on rehab time? Severity? Pain level? Hospitalization?

I think an injury should be defined as any accident requiring medical care,treatment, and at least one medical follow up appointment.

 

[Level5Mom]

I think it would also be enlightening to know what type of conditioning program those gyms currently use who reported those injuries. I would like to see a conditioning program survey of gyms period.

 

[Mamarazzi]

I think an injury should be defined as any accident requiring medical care,treatment, and at least one medical follow up appointment.

Regardless whether it actually takes the athlete out for one, or more, practices/comps?

 

[Mamarazzi]

I think that injuries should also be measured for the following -
Athletes who have the elites skills that have gotten injured. If you have a double punch double but got injured throwing a two to full, it can be argued that the wear and tear on your body from doing the bounding twisting skills played a large part in the injury in the straight full.

I don't think it would really be possible to accurately account for, in a general injury study, chronic injuries that may or may not contribute to an acute injury.
I think if we're going to gather info, it needs to be about "catastrophic acute" (and define both terms specifically) first, then chronic/repetitive use injuries.