All-Star Cea Chicago

[RaRaMama]

ICE parents have been saying a lot of things. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Just a small side note: I was also the same age as the 5R kids in question during my last year at my first gym and believe me, it was awful. Coaches doing drugs with athletes in hotel rooms, athletes sleeping together, the owners pocketing money from the gym and saying we can't afford to attend comps, coaches sabatoging the success of other teams in the gym out of jealousy, team mates being arrested and thrown in jail hours before a competition, athletes breaking into the gym and stealing money. Just awful stuff. But I told my parents that I will finish out the season and then I wanted to switch gyms if we could afford it. I finished it out for my teammates and my friends on the team.

Kudos to you for sticking it out-but I have to say, this would definitely fall under "physical and/or mental danger" for me/my CP. Drugs and sex among coaches/teammates, teammates being arrested, stealing money....any of those would be times where I didn't feel an obligation to stick around. I'm not sure I would let CP stick around in those situations either, commitment or not. It takes one bad move, one "wrong place/wrong time" to go from being a witness to all of that to being involved.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[scaliaa]

You can change grocery store with any other position you want, it all equals the same. Why should this coach have had to wait until the end of ICE's season to ensure her future was covered? The point is, she was staying---ICE forced her hand and she reacted. I don't fault her for that.

As for the result, an ICE parent here has said the exact opposite---that without this coaches gym those athletes likely would have sat the season out. Of course no one really knows how 100% true this is because it didn't happen, but I think this focus on safety/danger as the only okay reason to leave is a little short sided. What about mental health that can't be seen or evaluated by the naked eye? Should miserable athletes be forced to stay in a program with a different coach because theirs were forced out? I don't think they should. Can ever kid handle that change like it's nothing? No.

I know what it's like to stay in a crappy situation because I had to see my commitment through; mind you I was in the same age group as these 5R kids are, and I can say looking back it was the absolute stupidest decision I could have made for myself at that time. If others chose to stay in crappy situation, that is on them---but the judgement towards those who say 'peace out' and do what is best for them, I just don't agree with.

Your grocery store analogy makes perfect sense.

 

[RaRaMama]

I find this whole discussion rather fascinating. It brings up some very interesting ethical and theoretical questions, that I guess I kind of struggle with in this sport. I can totally understand the concept that if this coach wasn't happy, and was let go for essentially making it known that she was unhappy and making other plans, that the people who were loyal to her were ready and willing to take a stand with her. That makes sense to me on some level, and I guess I can see how it would be compelling for some of her athletes to follow her.

But I am also appalled by the lack of concern these people had for their teammates, was it right to choose a coach over a team? I don't know. But they basically left a bunch of their peers with the consequences of their convictions, which could be devastating to families like mine, who struggle to make this all happen, and who would have made sacrifices that were basically demeaned by another group of people. No way I could even consider being able to afford starting over mid season. But I would also be disappointed by the owner, who would take a stand against a coach mid season, allowing this to happen. It would all be very devestating to me. We place our childrens' well being in the hands of an organization, coaches and other parents every season, and I hate it when egos become an obstruction to people remembering this. YUCK!

Finally, I am very conflicted about a big gym lending it's name to this situation. I am not opposed to expansion, or to being supportive of a coach that you are ready to invest in... But to do it at the expense of the kids who committed to a program you were not in competition with at the beginning of the season? That just seems too opportunistic to me, I generally respect CEA, and have liked their athlete centered reputation, so it's pretty baffling to me.

Hit the nail on the head in every aspect for me. I can see all sides and honestly it's not black and white. Too much gray area and too many issues. I can see those loyal to the coach, I can see why it stinks being left behind, I can see why a coach who wanted an opportunity took it, and I can see why the owner panicked and fired her. Just a mess all around and no clear right/wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dat.jpp]

I'm sorry if I'm really late on this but, ICE used to be ICE Athletics or is that a different gym altogether?

 

[hawkeye87]

Here's my 2 cents. I don't have a dog in this fight but to be 100% honest, I am not the biggest fan of the way CEA runs their business. For me personally, I really like the way CA runs their multiple locations but to each their own. As far as the coach being fired or let go or leaving, whatever happened has happened and at the end of the day there needs to be some lessons learned here. Sometimes keeping quiet and allowing the other person to rant and rave is the best solution. Just because one person behaves badly doesn't mean that you have to in return. Let your actions speak for you. Perhaps, instead of all the kids leaving their gym mid season, she could have gone to some of the other CEA locations and learned and worked with the CEA coaching staff? Just an idea.

In our household, there is always and always will be a focus on team. We as a family are a team, we work as a team and we win as a team and we lose as a team. It is important to both my husband and I that we teach our children about teamwork as it is an essential part of being a well functioning adult and worker. If my son was unhappy in a team sport and wanted to quit half way through, we would tell him to stick with it- barring safety concerns. And its not about gym loyalty, its about the fact that you made a commitment to your teammates and they are counting on you. Also, you gave your word that you would be there and help them through the season, and your word is everything- at least in our household.

As far as kids being replaced mid-season because a new kid comes in with top notch skills, again this doesn't bother me because of our focus on team. Something like this recently happened to our son, he was in swim class and a girl started the class a few weeks after the start date and she is absolutely amazing. For a 3 year old, its almost like watching a mini Michael Phelps, she is that good. Before she came, my son was the star of the class and he was upset when she first started, complaining about how good she is. I told him, "honey, there is always going to be someone out there who is better than you in something. They could be a better swimmer, singer or artist than you are. But if you want to get better and be better, then you are going to have to work at it. Instead of hating them or being jealous of their talents, take the chance to learn from them." and that's what he did. He started imitating the things that she did and he is a better swimmer because of it. Yes, my son is competitive and he totally gets it from me but we try and teach him that if he wants to be the best then he is going to have to work for it and that he can learn just as much from his peers as he can from his teachers or coaches. Being around talented and amazing, hardworking people is only a benefit in my eyes for my kids because it only benefits my kids.

 

[Mom2K]

Just for clarifications sake, and I may have confused some things along the way so please straighten me out, when exactly did this firing take place? I feel like I have read some reports that it was last week and others that it was 3 weeks before. Was she still the coach when Passion competed weekend before last? Just trying to wrap my head around how quickly parents made their choice to switch. In our household at least there would have been a LOT of conversation before even considering such a move (which I can't imagine us doing). And surely there had to be some kind of expectation of numbers involved in being able to find a temporary facility for practices, scheduling, etc. I would love a clear timeline of events to help me better understand how this all went down.

 

[SL&AM]

Kudos to you for sticking it out-but I have to say, this would definitely fall under "physical and/or mental danger" for me/my CP. Drugs and sex among coaches/teammates, teammates being arrested, stealing money....any of those would be times where I didn't feel an obligation to stick around. I'm not sure I would let CP stick around in those situations either, commitment or not. It takes one bad move, one "wrong place/wrong time" to go from being a witness to all of that to being involved.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You said what I wanted to say in a much more tactful way than I think I could have. None of those situations listed would be okay in my book for me or CP to be involved in. I think it's very important to pick and chose who and what you associate yourself with and that is just a no on way too many platforms. Sticking out a commitment in that type of atmosphere makes me question the judgment of those who stood by the sidelines and put up with it; I'm not meaning to or trying to attack any one person, but at some point you cross to become the spectator to it and those people are often just as wrong as those committing the acts themselves.

 

[RaRaMama]

You said what I wanted to say in a much more tactful way than I think I could have. None of those situations listed would be okay in my book for me or CP to be involved in. I think it's very important to pick and chose who and what you associate yourself with and that is just a no on way too many platforms. Sticking out a commitment in that type of atmosphere makes me question the judgment of those who stood by the sidelines and put up with it; I'm not meaning to or trying to attack any one person, but at some point you cross to become the spectator to it and those people are often just as wrong as those committing the acts themselves.

Haha, thanks. We have dealt with similar stuff in school cheer this year and I've almost pulled my kid several times-we have about a month left and we're done. Girls coming to practice drunk, coach knowing and trying to sweep it under the rug, coach issuing demerits to some but not others for equal infractions, girls driving illegally and the coach just laughing about it. CP spoke up and has now been labeled the "rat". If it wasn't for allstar CP would have left cheer altogether after this year. I've allowed her to stay and finish because she doesn't want anyone to say she couldn't handle varsity cheer, but it's been a rough year. Never in a million years would I think a coach, athletic director, and principal would stand behind this behavior-but they have. Will be glad to be done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Livvyxoxo]

I have no ties to either program but the "cheapening your brand" comments are a bit strange.

I'm sure CSP is not hiring Random Aged-out Suzy Who Calls Herself A Coach to run a program 12 hours away.

These folks with mutiple locations generally know what they're doing.

Sorry what does CSP stand for?

 

[SL&AM]

Sorry what does CSP stand for?

Countney Smith-Pope

 

[Fiercecheermom]

ICE parents have been saying a lot of things. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Just a small side note: I was also the same age as the 5R kids in question during my last year at my first gym and believe me, it was awful. Coaches doing drugs with athletes in hotel rooms, athletes sleeping together, the owners pocketing money from the gym and saying we can't afford to attend comps, coaches sabatoging the success of other teams in the gym out of jealousy, team mates being arrested and thrown in jail hours before a competition, athletes breaking into the gym and stealing money. Just awful stuff. But I told my parents that I will finish out the season and then I wanted to switch gyms if we could afford it. I finished it out for my teammates and my friends on the team. I look back at that time and while I remember how miserable I was for the last few months, crying on the way home from every practice, I also look back and see how it made me grow as a person. I do not regret my decision to finish out my season at all. I've made really stupid decisions in my life but that was not one of them. It was one of the best "life lessons" situations I ever endured.

It's not a bad thing to suffer through disappointing seasons, unless, like I said, your health (physical and mental) is compromised. It toughens you up for the disappointment of adulthood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And to touch upon the mental health subject - I really struggled emotionally in college and the mental strength I had from going through all the BS in cheer helped me stay strong during that time even if there were some really low points. I learned invaluable skills during my time at my first gym, skills I still use today. And I see my friends who have been sheltered from disappointment and hard times their whole lives, who don't have those same skills, and I see how it hinders their abilities to reach the goals they want to achieve.



I want to give you a standing ovation rn.

You are a better person than me. If I had found out those types of things were going on, I would have definitely labeled that "dangerous/extenuating" and I would have pulled my CP. No questions asked. The lesson to be learned at that moment, was when you encounter illegal things you get out. Drugs are not only illegal, but the endanger the athletes these coaches are supposed to be teaching.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

Sorry what does CSP stand for?

Courtney Smith Pope

 

[FaithOverFear!]

I don't want to expand too much on my issue but I am not in an ideal situation. This season has not treated me well. However, I'm going to push through because I've made a commitment. Even though I'm not 100% happy, I'm going to give it all for the rest of the season because that's what right. I wish more people would finish what they started. At the end of this season, I will politely leave and move on. It's not that hard or that big of a deal..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cheerKT]

I don't care if she did or didn't intentionally lead kids out of a gym. She opened a gym mid season, offered teams, and allowed kids to jump ship, ruining other teams. Again, SHE COULD'VE WAITED TIL NEXT SEASON AND OFFERED CLASSES. I doubt the kids that followed her would've quit cheer altogether if she didn't offer a team at CEA. I'm sure they would've stayed put.

Yes, she could have waited until next season. And she was. Until ICE let her go, terminating that contract. I really do understand that argument, which would have been the best way to go had ICE not fired her. I guess I'm just not of the mindset that you "owe" anything (like waiting around until next off season) to employers that terminated you.

It's unfortunate how it all went down, but I do not think of it as vindictive. Why should she have to cater her plans around a former employer if she did not sign any kind of non compete? She's just trying to make a living like the rest of us are. The cheerleaders are of free mind and will and could elect to follow her or not, she cannot control that.

 

[astaley22]

With everyone talking about what they would have done had they been in the coach's/athletes position, what would you have done if you were Darlene? You find out an employee has been making plans to leave and start a gym that would directly compete with you, you really wouldn't fire them? You have to protect your business and that was the option she found best. No, the timing wasn't the best but if you're taking the risk to do something like that while still employed you need to be ready for the consequences.