All-Star Cheer Music & Copyright Laws...

[CEAisstronger]

If you created that you are a genius!

 

[kristenthegreat]

As an actress, this whole SOPA bill makes me so upset. Instead of fighting piracy the way they are now (which has proven EXTREMELY ineffective), why not adapt the way hulu has? Free content with mandatory ads. Other connective ideas like that who adapt the way users are now viewing/consuming data to the way people can still make a profit. Also- Congress. Last I checked I had a FAR BIGGER issue with the state of jobs and unequal taxation in favor of the rich. How about you work on THOSE things instead of turning us into a military state? kthanxbai.

 

[xo sarah]

If you created that you are a genius!

Nope, just browsing some LOLcats. Typical day for me, lol.

 

[wcdad]

Did Cheerlibrary take a day of protest because when I click on a song nothing shows up?

As for Wikipedia by professor in my senior capstone class taught us how to properly use Wikipedia when doing research. You don't site Wikipedia you use it to start your search and then using the sited sources to gather your information from. Always laugh when people fail papers for using Wikipedia as a source when all they needed to do is site the article that was sited in the wiki.

I am also wondering what is next if the SOPA/PIPA bill passes, these music mixers may be able to have things taken off sites like Cheerlibrary but what happens to those music mixers when it comes to the artists and producers who actually own the rights to the songs that they are using for free/for profit? I know that JRs website has a few of his mixes playing (not sure about the other mixers sites) but if they wanted they could get their sites taken down as well. This could actually lead to the beginning of the end of cheer mixers using music without paying those who own the rights to the songs.

Someone can correct me, but my understanding is a mixer can “sample “or use so many counts of a song with out infringements. Can any one confirm the number of counts that are “free?”

I know when a team goes to worlds they have to submit a music list with the music, I always thought it was a release, with the break down of the songs and music used and artist, is it in fact a release? Do the DJ /Mixers get a release from the record companies?

I know if this gets passed it will be a night mare and legal battles ahead for ISP providers like Verizon that will not release customer information with out court orders and even then they have fought not to.

 

[wcdad]

The bigger issue with this bill is that it will be next to impossible to enforce. Most companies are set up off shore and the servers are overseas. It would be like the Russian Government trying to enforce a law it passed in Moscow in the United States. As it stands it does not have a lot of teeth yet, but can get very ugly quickly.

 

[FierceandFearless]

Wikipedia actually has a disclaimer that says that you are not allowed to use any of their information on anything educationally, even if you cite it. I'd provide a link, but ya know, wiki's shut down so yeah..

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Someone can correct me, but my understanding is a mixer can “sample “or use so many counts of a song with out infringements. Can any one confirm the number of counts that are “free?”

I know when a team goes to worlds they have to submit a music list with the music, I always thought it was a release, with the break down of the songs and music used and artist, is it in fact a release? Do the DJ /Mixers get a release from the record companies?

I know if this gets passed it will be a night mare and legal battles ahead for ISP providers like Verizon that will not release customer information with out court orders and even then they have fought not to.

The "samples" and used in mixes are free so long as they're not used for profit in any way.

Example....I have a bunch of CEA videos on my YouTube and if I were to turn on revenue sharing for my videos, it is illegal. It is technically illegal.

I just called to verify this w/my father and he said yes it illegal unless the music producers are paying fees to the RIAA, royalties, etc. If they are not, then it's absolutely illegal. Is it likely to be targeted soon? Probably not ASAP, but eventually it will probably come around. Maybe it wouldn't, he said. It just depends on how much attention it gets and who's radar it flies under, and ultimately, how much money is being made from it. However, it would be the music producer's main responsibility bc he/she should know the law (an we all know ignorance is not bliss when it comes to to law).

 

[wcdad]

On a side note, this is the issue that has been discussed to great length and people did not understand copyright laws and infringements. When teams and owners requested that videos of there teams be removed. A lot of people laughed on the boards and said it was not fair for them to ask to remove them. That they shot the video and therefore owned it. To the point they were up loaded on a site that did not recognize copyright like the cheer library before they were removed from a site that did. In reality now with this bill the person that shoots the video as well as the person that uploads the video will now be held liable as well if they want to take it that far.

This also goes beyond Music. All the people that make shirts and bows with Disney characters and likeness will no longer be able to post them on here or any where on the web.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

On a side note, this is the issue that has been discussed to great length and people did not understand copyright laws and infringements. When teams and owners requested that videos of there teams be removed. A lot of people laughed on the boards and said it was not fair for them to ask to remove them. That they shot the video and therefore owned it. To the point they were up loaded on a site that did not recognize copyright like the cheer library before they were removed from a site that did. In reality now with this bill the person that shoots the video as well as the person that uploads the video will now be held liable as well if they want to take it that far.

This also goes beyond Music. All the people that make shirts and bows with Disney characters and likeness will no longer be able to post them on here or any where on the web.

Oh of course. I was just giving you the clarification you asked for....Trust me, I'm kinda spoiled w/music bc my entire life, I've never had to pay for a single tape/CD/concert (I take that back, there have been times before MP3's that I've purchased CD's bc my dad didn't get free copies of the music I wanted, but maybe 10 in my entire life?). Anyway, my dad was telling me of an example where a record company was GIVING music producers the songs and then eventually turned right around and sued them (and won).

My dad used an analogy I really hadn't thought of before. He said, if you let someone borrow your CD or tape back in the day, it wasn't illegal (it's still not illegal) and that was the very basic premises of sharing music over the internet. Same principle. Shareware (the software) is free and I'm gonna let you borrow my "record". Obviously that's the battle Napster, etc. eventually lost, but it's still a good analogy. I'm not telling anyone it's ok or not ok, btw....just passing along the info. *Dad's been in the business ~37 years.

Yes, I agree w/you that this legislation is bs...So I have a digital photo album but you can't look through it and I get in trouble or have to take it down bc I have an image of a Disney character on my shirt, but I own the picture and I bought the shirt and you can still see it in my physical photo album (does anyone still use these besides me, lol)? Gimme a break!!

 

[ztaprincess]

Someone can correct me, but my understanding is a mixer can “sample “or use so many counts of a song with out infringements. Can any one confirm the number of counts that are “free?”

I know when a team goes to worlds they have to submit a music list with the music, I always thought it was a release, with the break down of the songs and music used and artist, is it in fact a release? Do the DJ /Mixers get a release from the record companies?

I have always been under the impression that teams have to fill out the forms for Worlds so cover ESPN/Disney's butts for airing the music without being covered. I don't think it is to protect anyone but them. I assume NCA competitions do the same for FSN.

I just really feel that if this gets passed the music mixers better be prepared to start creating their own music for mixes because they are bound to start cracking down on it. They can sample all the music they want but the problem is they are making profit from it. Same with youtube partners, they cannot have copyrighted music in their videos because they are being paid by youtube/google through adsense and partnership.

 

[John Butler]

It's funny that this is being discussed. I was just thinking to myself the other day about this very issue. I was wondering how all of these competitions are able to sell DVD's of the competition considering the music used for all of the teams come from songs being played on the radio and such. I know that each of the competitions don't get authorization from each of the music artists to use or reproduce their music on the DVD, so does that mean that the artist could technically come back and sue the even producers and/or the producers of the DVD for copyright infringement for the music being played for the routines? This issue really goes pretty deep. I have not looked into the bill being discussed here, but after seeing this post I am very interested to see what the bill is all about. Unfortunately, as with most bills passed in congress, it will probably be 999 pages more than it needs to be, so I don't know if I will have the time to read and understand all of it!!

 

[cheersolutions]

now, i will not speak on SOPA, because i have not done enough homework to be educated on it, but i will speak on behalf of cheerleading music producers in general. cheer music producers are providing a "service" and that is all. we are paid to arrange and reconstruct music to be used for particular choreographed performance. all copyrights are still held by the original artists and we are not making money off of the use or broadcast of their copyrighted material. we are being paid for our time and expertise as a producer, and that is it. here again, i reiterate, we are not "selling" music, we are "selling" a service to arrange music.

the place where people get in trouble with copyrights is when they use copyrighted material for their own personal gain. to be technical, the burden of adhering to copyright laws and paying royalties within the cheerleading industry falls upon the individual gyms to a small degree, and to the event producers in a big way. technically, a gym owner should have to pay royalties for playing music within their own gym for their teams and students. whether it is the radio, or a specifically mixed and arranged piece of cheer music, they are "broadcasting" that copyrighted material, for their customers, that they are technically making a profit off of. now as far as ASCAP and BMI are concerned, they would really have to choose wisely in which battles they want to fight. in my opinion, going after the individual gyms would be a tremendously unwise battle to pick, as they would be fighting with defendants with shallow pockets.

legally, if they ever chose to pick a fight, i would think that it would be with the industry at large - the people that are making real money off of the "broadcast" of this copyrighted material - the event producers. they are "broadcasting" this copyrighted material, in a public setting, for 1000's of people at a time, every weekend of the year, and blatantly making a profit off of its broadcast and display. now i cannot and will not speak on the behalf of any event producer, and how they choose to protect themselves at all of their events. i am sure that some of them have a blanket broadcast license through ASCAP & BMI and pay royalties to play whatever they want at their events. but if the music industry was to choose to pick this fight - i believe that it would start with the people with the deepest pockets, that are making the most money off of the broadcast of copyrighted material - the event producers. if you have ever attended UCA AllStar Nationals, or World's as a coach or gym owner - this is exactly what those highly annoying music sheets are all about in your registration packet. your team (and their music) has the potential to be broadcast around the world on ESPN. they make you provide extremely detailed information about your cheer music, and the copyrighted material that it contains. since they are "broadcasting" copyrighted material on TV, they owe royalties back to the licensing agencies of ASCAP & BMI for its use. here again, i do not speak on behalf of any event producers and how they handle their business - i am only illustrating how the cheer world relates to the music industry at large.

now, if this battle was to ever take place, it could potentially change the entire landscape of the competitive cheerleading industry. if the music industry saw fit to try and stop the use of copyrighted materials in competition cheerleading, then we are talking industry wide changes that would put a lot of things that we know and love today, back to square one, and force us to rebuild the industry in a different manner. obviously, the "powers that be" in the cheerleading industry would not let that happen without a huge fight. they would be forced to protect their stake and interest in the industry at all costs, and you can only imagine what a gigantic legal battle that would become.

moral of the story ... when seeking legal action - aim for the potential defendants with the deepest pockets first. that would go event producers, then individual gyms, and then finally music producers. for the music industry, what's the smarter fight to pick - the one with little ole me, or the one with Varsity, Jamfest, Cheersport, etc... i have researched extensively, and there is absolutely nothing illegal about what i do as a producer. as i have said a couple times before, i do not speak on behalf anyone else, in any other aspect of this industry - i am just trying to shed some light on how all of this cheerleading stuff pertains to the music industry in the outside world...

 

[wcdad]

now, i will not speak on SOPA, because i have not done enough homework to be educated on it, but i will speak on behalf of cheerleading music producers in general. cheer music producers are providing a "service" and that is all. we are paid to arrange and reconstruct music to be used for particular choreographed performance. all copyrights are still held by the original artists and we are not making money off of the use or broadcast of their copyrighted material. we are being paid for our time and expertise as a producer, and that is it. here again, i reiterate, we are not "selling" music, we are "selling" a service to arrange music.

the place where people get in trouble with copyrights is when they use copyrighted material for their own personal gain. to be technical, the burden of adhering to copyright laws and paying royalties within the cheerleading industry falls upon the individual gyms to a small degree, and to the event producers in a big way. technically, a gym owner should have to pay royalties for playing music within their own gym for their teams and students. whether it is the radio, or a specifically mixed and arranged piece of cheer music, they are "broadcasting" that copyrighted material, for their customers, that they are technically making a profit off of. now as far as ASCAP and BMI are concerned, they would really have to choose wisely in which battles they want to fight. in my opinion, going after the individual gyms would be a tremendously unwise battle to pick, as they would be fighting with defendants with shallow pockets.

legally, if they ever chose to pick a fight, i would think that it would be with the industry at large - the people that are making real money off of the "broadcast" of this copyrighted material - the event producers. they are "broadcasting" this copyrighted material, in a public setting, for 1000's of people at a time, every weekend of the year, and blatantly making a profit off of its broadcast and display. now i cannot and will not speak on the behalf of any event producer, and how they choose to protect themselves at all of their events. i am sure that some of them have a blanket broadcast license through ASCAP & BMI and pay royalties to play whatever they want at their events. but if the music industry was to choose to pick this fight - i believe that it would start with the people with the deepest pockets, that are making the most money off of the broadcast of copyrighted material - the event producers. if you have ever attended UCA AllStar Nationals, or World's as a coach or gym owner - this is exactly what those highly annoying music sheets are all about in your registration packet. your team (and their music) has the potential to be broadcast around the world on ESPN. they make you provide extremely detailed information about your cheer music, and the copyrighted material that it contains. since they are "broadcasting" copyrighted material on TV, they owe royalties back to the licensing agencies of ASCAP & BMI for its use. here again, i do not speak on behalf of any event producers and how they handle their business - i am only illustrating how the cheer world relates to the music industry at large.

now, if this battle was to ever take place, it could potentially change the entire landscape of the competitive cheerleading industry. if the music industry saw fit to try and stop the use of copyrighted materials in competition cheerleading, then we are talking industry wide changes that would put a lot of things that we know and love today, back to square one, and force us to rebuild the industry in a different manner. obviously, the "powers that be" in the cheerleading industry would not let that happen without a huge fight. they would be forced to protect their stake and interest in the industry at all costs, and you can only imagine what a gigantic legal battle that would become.

moral of the story ... when seeking legal action - aim for the potential defendants with the deepest pockets first. that would go event producers, then individual gyms, and then finally music producers. for the music industry, what's the smarter fight to pick - the one with little ole me, or the one with Varsity, Jamfest, Cheersport, etc... i have researched extensively, and there is absolutely nothing illegal about what i do as a producer. as i have said a couple times before, i do not speak on behalf anyone else, in any other aspect of this industry - i am just trying to shed some light on how all of this cheerleading stuff pertains to the music industry in the outside world...

Thank you... good explanation of the mixer side of the biz

 

[GreatWhite92]

I feel as if they are going to get mad at events for playing their music in a public setting, they are only going to hurt themselves. Heck thats free advertising. I don't listen to the radio much so I couldn't count the times I've heard a song at a competition, liked it, went home and immediately bought it off itunes. If I never would have heard it at the competition...I never would have given you money.

 

[Nothanks]

None of my professors ever let us use Wikipedia as a source, but I do use it to find a bit more information about something if I need clarity, or I check out some of the sources cited in the Wikipedia article to see if it helps me any. .

I definitely agree with this. My mom teaches at a community college, and while she won't accept it as a source, she advocates it to get a beginning grasp on ideas, and where to go with it by looking at their references.