All-Star Cheer Music & Copyright Laws...

[Ashley]

Or you could do the legal thing and pay them (the RIAA, etc) for the rights to use their songs.


Hmmmm maybe I should go into the cheer music business since my dad has the authorization for most music/artists... Lol but the problem of playing it in a venue I'm not so sure about. I think that would be the EP's responsibility at that point.

How much do you think that would cost? Thousands of dollars per song. That would kill the industry dead in its tracks.


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[xtremeteal4life]

How much do you think that would cost? Thousands of dollars per song. That would kill the industry dead in its tracks.


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No it's a percentage or flat fee I think for all the artists represented by a specific company. Still costs money, but not thousands of dollars per song.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I tried telling ppl (some cheer music producers who swore otherwise) this was illegal, and that the only real remedy is to pay the fees- kind of how YouTube does- to use the music. I assumed more savvy producers were already doing this, but I guess not.

 

[Mom Jeans]

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread, but my daughters boyfriend is a music producer and I know he samples music when he makes his beats and publishes them and its legal, artists do this too.

Okay phone dying I will read it the rest later

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread, but my daughters boyfriend is a music producer and I know he samples music when he makes his beats and publishes them and its legal, artists do this too.

Okay phone dying I will read it the rest later

But it's completely illegal to profit from it. That's the main point here. I've already explained it in this thread (and in others pertaining to the same info), so I'll just re-show the quoted material pertinent to this subject.

Someone can correct me, but my understanding is a mixer can “sample “or use so many counts of a song with out infringements. Can any one confirm the number of counts that are “free?”

I know when a team goes to worlds they have to submit a music list with the music, I always thought it was a release, with the break down of the songs and music used and artist, is it in fact a release? Do the DJ /Mixers get a release from the record companies?

I know if this gets passed it will be a night mare and legal battles ahead for ISP providers like Verizon that will not release customer information with out court orders and even then they have fought not to.

my reply

The "samples" and used in mixes are free so long as they're not used for profit in any way.

Example....I have a bunch of CEA videos on my YouTube and if I were to turn on revenue sharing for my videos, it is illegal. It is technically illegal.

I just called to verify this w/my father and he said yes it illegal unless the music producers are paying fees to the RIAA, royalties, etc. If they are not, then it's absolutely illegal. Is it likely to be targeted soon? Probably not ASAP, but eventually it will probably come around. Maybe it wouldn't, he said. It just depends on how much attention it gets and who's radar it flies under, and ultimately, how much money is being made from it. However, it would be the music producer's main responsibility bc he/she should know the law (an we all know ignorance is not bliss when it comes to to law).

On a side note, this is the issue that has been discussed to great length and people did not understand copyright laws and infringements. When teams and owners requested that videos of there teams be removed. A lot of people laughed on the boards and said it was not fair for them to ask to remove them. That they shot the video and therefore owned it. To the point they were up loaded on a site that did not recognize copyright like the cheer library before they were removed from a site that did. In reality now with this bill the person that shoots the video as well as the person that uploads the video will now be held liable as well if they want to take it that far.

This also goes beyond Music. All the people that make shirts and bows with Disney characters and likeness will no longer be able to post them on here or any where on the web.

and my response

Oh of course. I was just giving you the clarification you asked for....Trust me, I'm kinda spoiled w/music bc my entire life, I've never had to pay for a single tape/CD/concert (I take that back, there have been times before MP3's that I've purchased CD's bc my dad didn't get free copies of the music I wanted, but maybe 10 in my entire life?). Anyway, my dad was telling me of an example where a record company was GIVING music producers the songs and then eventually turned right around and sued them (and won). :confused:

My dad used an analogy I really hadn't thought of before. He said, if you let someone borrow your CD or tape back in the day, it wasn't illegal (it's still not illegal) and that was the very basic premises of sharing music over the internet. Same principle. Shareware (the software) is free and I'm gonna let you borrow my "record". Obviously that's the battle Napster, etc. eventually lost, but it's still a good analogy. I'm not telling anyone it's ok or not ok, btw....just passing along the info. *Dad's been in the business ~37 years.

Yes, I agree w/you that this legislation is bs...So I have a digital photo album but you can't look through it and I get in trouble or have to take it down bc I have an image of a Disney character on my shirt, but I own the picture and I bought the shirt and you can still see it in my physical photo album (does anyone still use these besides me, lol)? Gimme a break!! :mad:

It is NOT illegal to BROADCAST a mix tape that contains sampled music, it is only illegal for the artist to sell it if they have not paid for the right to do so.

This applies to music producers with regards to profit making. I just want everyone here to be clear that it is, in fact, very illegal to sell the "mix-tapes" aka. cheer music unless the music producer is paying the fees to do so.

 

[CGAcheer]

But it's completely illegal to profit from it. That's the main point here. I've already explained it in this thread (and in others pertaining to the same info), so I'll just re-show the quoted material pertinent to this subject.


my reply





and my response




It is NOT illegal to BROADCAST a mix tape that contains sampled music, it is only illegal for the artist to sell it if they have not paid for the right to do so.

This applies to music producers with regards to profit making. I just want everyone here to be clear that it is, in fact, very illegal to sell the "mix-tapes" aka. cheer music unless the music producer is paying the fees to do so.

Most cheer music sites have a disclaimer a long the lines of not selling a product but selling service/time to mix it. Is that enough?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Also
Also, MNUCheer.com 's post within this thread is accurate :)

xtremeteal4life You are right! My brother in-law is a music producer and owns his own studio and has mentioned this to me numerous times as he has fixed my mixes in the past. What we are doing is illegal to the RIAA. A "production" of cheer music is not covered by ASCAP, that is for people who write or compose music. Mixing Lil Wayne with Toby Keith with a "YEAH" is not writing your own music. As for BMI, that is for business's who play music for a crowd since their business are used for personal gain such as DJ's, fitness club, bar, night club, and so on. Any music production with music that is not yours, the engineer understands they are manipulating the artists work, ignorance is not a defense in a court of law. He also thinks cheer mixes are way over priced but since our market is smaller and the lack of knowledge how to mix music causes our demand and prices to be higher than normal.

Thats my two cents! :)

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Most cheer music sites have a disclaimer a long the lines of not selling a product but selling service/time to mix it. Is that enough?

No... Here's another one of my replies to that subject earlier in this thread.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude at all...but when you pass around information that is incorrect and someone believes you and perhaps decides to start a business of their own or base information that could potentially cause them detriment, I think it's wrong. You are passing this information along that is incorrect and you even act smug about it; like when you said, "who are they gonna pick on, little ole me" or the big guys? You fully acknowledged that the music you "alter" is copyrighted and you are obviously aware that what you're doing isn't technically legal, by saying "who it would serve them (record companies) the most to sue. You said research....your research. I'm not inclined to believe you when you say that you have "contacted" (not retained) an attorney and/or have personally contacted ASCAP and BMI, because I do actually know the exact law and how they interpret it at the moment regarding what you do. If you consulted an attorney and he/she has told you otherwise, I would ask for my money back. If you feel so comfortable w/the information you're passing along as accurate, then you would have no problem if I contacted the RIAA right? See, you forgot to mention them. For anyone who wants to know the RIAA is a group that represents the music industry in the form of collective rights management (aka, the licensing of copyright and royalty rights) and also certifying albums in gold, platinum, etc. Also, you expect me to believe that the ASCAP, the same organization who started requesting many websites pay an embedding fee for YouTube videos, despite the fact that YouTube already pays a licensing fee, the same company who demanded iTunes to pay for streaming a quick 30 second preview clip of the music prior to purchasing it, the same organization who tried to hold the cell phone companies liable for ringtones, said that they don't have a problem with you directly making profit from selling their copyrighted material to other people?

I did tell you exactly what know, I did share exactly what I know...which is that it is technically illegal. It is not illegal to make a mixed tape yourself (provided you owned/purchased the original music first), it is not illegal for radio stations to play one of Lil Wayne's "underground" songs (songs that do not appear on any of his albums, are not available for legal purchase digitally, online, etc., that may or may not contain sampled music) that contains sampled music....which is broadcasting. All 12 of his stations are considered to be "broadcasting" music in the manner which you noted earlier. I will absolutely clarify that I have no idea w/regards to television broadcasting as to the way the law works and/or is interpreted. However, I do know about music bc it is my dad's job to know. He has to know, or else he would be out of a job. His hip-hop station has had a mix show every weekend for the past 20 years. So I know it's ok for you technically make the tapes and for them to even be heard by others. It is absolutely not illegal for a gym owner to play a mixed tape for their gym bc of broadcasting laws, by your logic, a gym owner couldn't play their own CD's bc they'd be "broadcasting" them (another example of why I got upset by your "facts" regarding the law, bc they're not facts and it could cause loads of gym owners...especially smaller ones, to get spooked bc they believed you).

As far as paying for your services, a gym owner (probably with no extensive knowledge regarding the law compared to you) would most likely assume that you, as a music producer, are adhering to proper copyright laws. Considering that your job is to provide the music, that would seem logical. Just like I would expect my daughter's coach to know how to put a routine together that is competitive, a choreographer to provide choreography that is original (i.e., not a direct rip off), etc.

I'm sorry if I offended you, because that was honestly not my intention. I was rather incredulous after reading your post bc of the inaccurate information and the nonchalant attitude you seemed to portray regarding it. I don't want people to read it and accept it for fact, when it could come back to haunt them or cause problems for them, or scare them away from doing something that is perfectly legal (especially this). I truly would assume that as music producer who is fully aware of how things work bc they have done their research to know of those huge instances when music producers were sued by major record companies after giving them samples and then turning around and suing them. I also was struck by how naive you seemed regarding how much of a "fight" the cheerleading world give the record companies. The music industry would most certainly win any type of lawsuit in this arena based on the simple fact that it's illegal. Now do I want that? Of course not! Do I personally care that you are selling your mixes? No, I do not..I am aware that it is technically illegal, but I do not personally think it is that big of a deal. That is my personal opinion though, not the facts.. I hope we continue to fly under the radar bc I love cheer music and I would hate to see it change when, in my opinion, it really doesn't affect such a large percentage of the music industry at all...but, let's be real. They are greedy and they will attempt to find every way to make as much money as they possibly can. The ASCAP is a non-profit organization..and I already gave examples of their antics in the first paragraph of my reply. I truly don't mind what you do, but I was bothered by the inaccuracies and the potential fall out over them, as well as your "well it's not lil ole me they want" attitude. I apologize if it came across that harshly, as I meant not to offend you ok? I'm just trying to state the facts. If I didn't know for sure, I would have stated so (and always will...as it will usually start out, "feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but", etc.).

 

[CGAcheer]

No... Here's another one of my replies to that subject earlier in this thread.

So if I'm reading it correctly, I could make my own cheer mix with legally obtained music and play it with no problem? Could I pay an employee to create the mix? What about an independent contractor? What about buying some item and getting a free mix with it?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

So if I'm reading it correctly, I could make my own cheer mix with legally obtained music and play it with no problem? Could I pay an employee to create the mix? What about an independent contractor? What about buying some item and getting a free mix with it?

IF you weren't making a type of profit from it..which you are if you're including it as part of the fees for your gym (like when comp fees, coaches travel fees, music fees, choreography fees, etc...) or even if someone else is making a profit from YOUR music (Like an EP). Like kids who record themselves singing a celebrities song on YouTube can technically be required to pull the item even if they aren't making money from advertisements if an artist and/or record company, etc. requests it.
What do you mean buying some item and getting a free mix with it? Like trying to find a way around the law? Didn't you read the other stuff I wrote about what the RIAA has tried to do, lol? They can't sell an album at a store or online that has a "free mix tape" if the mix tape is sampled w/o paying proper royalties/fees.
Again, an "independent" contractor would have to pay the proper royalties to make a mix tape bc they do not own the rights to the song(s).

Does that make sense?

*Clarification- I get you're saying. No you cannot make your own mix from your collection of music and use it during the season bc it would still be for profit and it would still violate the copyright laws.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

You could pay an employee to do it if they paid the proper fees for the licensing/copyright, etc. But you just can't pay someone to make a mix tape of their legally owned music bc that's illegal. It's the same as you downloading a song w/o paying for it. You're still getting the music free-hence illegal.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I get why it's so murky/confusing, etc. bc many years ago the Supreme Court ruled on a similar issue regarding VCR's and their legalities regarding taping movies, tv shows, etc. from T.V. It was ruled legal.

Napster (and any other type of downloading music w/o paying for it) on the other hand, was ruled illegal- even though it was yours to "share". That's why it's not the uploader, rather the downloader who gets socked in the end.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I'm assuming you meant independent contractor the same way as hiring an employee to do it...thus the same explanation/answer regarding hiring an employee to do it applies.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

and from the top...5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4

lol

 

[Nothanks]

I get why it's so murky/confusing, etc. bc many years ago the Supreme Court ruled on a similar issue regarding VCR's and their legalities regarding taping movies, tv shows, etc. from T.V. It was ruled legal.

Napster (and any other type of downloading music w/o paying for it) on the other hand, was ruled illegal- even though it was yours to "share". That's why it's not the uploader, rather the downloader who gets socked in the end.

Uploaders do get in trouble though. I did about 4 years ago--I was so confused when I got the letter, because it wasn't a song I had downloaded, but when someone uploaded off my computer, I got a letter from the RIAA. It was a small fine, but a fine nonetheless, because I was enabling and allowing the music to be shared.