All-Star Crossovers And Sandbagging

[rrhhiannon]

I think you should only be able to crossover in the same level. But if a child has level 4 skills but is much more confident competing at level 2 then they should be able to do so, but not compete both levels.
When I played soccer I had the talent to play div 1 but I hated that much pressure, I probably could have played on the select team. But every year I'd drop down to the rec team.


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[KPep]

Our gym uses crossovers if the athlete wants to do more than one team. It keeps the younger levels strong and provides the girls with a higher or older team to compete on as well, whether the reason be skill wise, position wise, or just to spend more time in the gym and have two teams rather than one to compete on. It also gives the kids an opportunity to develop persepctive and leadership skills as at some point they are the oldest on their age appropriate team but may be amongst the youngest on their older team.

Now that is something I can agree with. :D

 

[TXcheermom]

I think you should only be allowed to compete in one level per season. What ever level you do your first competition thats what you should have to stay for that season.

 

[cupieqt]

These are all good ideas in theory. In practice it gets really muddy. I'll put two things on the table for consideration:
1. Will it limit the gyms with only 50-75 athletes at varying ages, degrees of ability and amounts of experience?
Picture this: Mini 1, mini 2, youth 1, youth 2, youth 3, youth 4, youth 5, junior 1, junior 2, junior 3, junior 4, junior 5, senior 1, senior 2, senior 3, senior 4, senior 4.2, senior R5, senior 5, coed, open, prep, .....try to form 3-4 teams with kids that fit in each of these categories. Pick the best option for your gym. If you have 2 kids in each category that's 46 kids. That gives you a minimum of 4 "wild card" kids to place wherever you want.

2. I believe that 90% of the athletes in any gym could easily be considered a "true" level at more than one level. (I put "true" in quotations bc it's such a rubber stamp phrase.)

We do have some USASF crossover rules in place already. You can't cross over to more than three teams at an event. You can't cross from all-star prep to all-star at the same event.

I think there should be a teeny bit tighter regulations, but you have to be careful not to start messing with business practices. The USASF's number one goal is to support the safety of the sport. It is not in their realm of power to regulate how gyms and EP's make their money. Eliminating or being super restrictive on crossovers changes EVERYTHING and it would absolutely affect the bottom line for these businesses.


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[cheernerd5678]

I think you should only be allowed to compete in one level per season. What ever level you do your first competition thats what you should have to stay for that season.

Which works well for big gyms where you can pull someone from a jr 4 to a sr 4 if you have an injury. But at our gym of 40 athletes, we have tiny exhibition, jr 2, sr 2, and sr 3. So if an athlete is injured or quits on our senior 3, we have no option but to bring someone up from a level 2 team...


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[Cheerfun2]

If they're trained well then they shouldn't.

Every year I pray to the cheer gods that I won't need crossovers. Then every year I do. I've never had one throw an illegal skill in all my years of coaching. I think it really is an anomaly for that to happen. If it does, I would assume that kid was a fill in from another team, not an all the time crossover.


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Yes...I cannot imagine my cp throwing her level 4 tumbling in her 4.2 routine. It is just a completely different routine, and obviously her tumbling pass is completely different. Plus, this is her 6th year competing...Lord knows she sure isn't a perfect cheerleader, but at this stage in the game she wouldn't make that particular mistake! ;)

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

I think you should only be allowed to compete in one level per season. What ever level you do your first competition thats what you should have to stay for that season.

A small gym could never do this. If they ever wanted to make a rule like this, they'd have to exclude gyms w/ under so many people. B

Which works well for big gyms where you can pull someone from a jr 4 to a sr 4 if you have an injury. But at our gym of 40 athletes, we have tiny exhibition, jr 2, sr 2, and sr 3. So if an athlete is injured or quits on our senior 3, we have no option but to bring someone up from a level 2 team...


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Yeah - a small gym could never survive w/ such a restriction.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

Yes...I cannot imagine my cp throwing her level 4 tumbling in her 4.2 routine. It is just a completely different routine, and obviously her tumbling pass is completely different. Plus, this is her 6th year competing...Lord knows she sure isn't a perfect cheerleader, but at this stage in the game she wouldn't make that particular mistake! ;)

Yeah - I would be really shocked if any kid over age 7-8 would make a mistake like throwing a higher skill when they weren't supposed to.

 

[dawgshow]

Yeah - I would be really shocked if any kid over age 7-8 would make a mistake like throwing a higher skill when they weren't supposed to.

Trust me. It happens. I've seen it quite a bit the last season and a half. I don't know if they were fill ins or permanent crossovers but it happens.

 

[TXcheermom]

Which works well for big gyms where you can pull someone from a jr 4 to a sr 4 if you have an injury. But at our gym of 40 athletes, we have tiny exhibition, jr 2, sr 2, and sr 3. So if an athlete is injured or quits on our senior 3, we have no option but to bring someone up from a level 2 team...


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I didnt even think about injuries... ugh what a hard topic to decide whats fair and what's not

 

[CheerBank]

Yeah - I would be really shocked if any kid over age 7-8 would make a mistake like throwing a higher skill when they weren't supposed to.

Our first gym - first competition of season. Jr 3 team (not cp's team) had been a jr 4 team until a few weeks before they decided to drop them a level for the season. Routine changed to level 3 skills. Opening standing tumbling - 4 girls threw standing back tucks.

 

[cupieqt]

Our first gym - first competition of season. Jr 3 team (not cp's team) had been a jr 4 team until a few weeks before they decided to drop them a level for the season. Routine changed to level 3 skills. Opening standing tumbling - 4 girls threw standing back tucks.

That....is really weird. I know this is totally within the realm of crazy spit that can happen...but it's the opening, like they weren't even caught up in the frenzy of the routine. So did they just not drill it enough? The muscle memory and effort it takes to do a standing tuck is so completely different than it is for a standing bhs to tuck. Like....what happened there? Maybe I could see one athlete doing this. But 4? This makes me think they just didn't spend enough time drilling that opening because they had to spend too much time changing other, bigger things.

So to me that would point to a lack of training/drilling rather than just a straight up, caught in the moment mistake. I'm sure it was probably drilled after that!


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[calikaitlyn_]

It's upsetting to see people say they have to do it to win. My team only has one crossover. Ive had to go against a team dropping down three levels. We still won. I don't think it's fair to go against a team with half backhandsprings just so they can win. How are teams that are true lvl 1 expected to win against these teams? In some ways crossovers are needed, (yes even at our gym) for injuries etc. Different teams go to different comps so that comes into play as well. I think crossovers should be used, but sparingly.

 

[Cheer Dad]

@cupieqt you have very valuable points and being a parent whose kid crossed over for many years between J2 to S3 and then S3 to S5 and currently S5 to R5 (temporary) I get the whole small gyms need crossovers but what is the harm in asking how many are on a team?

As a former coach (not all star cheer) and sports organization board member I can't see how not divulging that info is protecting the kids.

Just looking for your perspective on it.


**Don't be silly, it's only sandbagging when OTHER teams do it.**

 

[cupieqt]

@cupieqt you have very valuable points and being a parent whose kid crossed over for many years between J2 to S3 and then S3 to S5 and currently S5 to R5 (temporary) I get the whole small gyms need crossovers but what is the harm in asking how many are on a team?

As a former coach (not all star cheer) and sports organization board member I can't see how not divulging that info is protecting the kids.

Just looking for your perspective on it.


**Don't be silly, it's only sandbagging when OTHER teams do it.**

Valid questions! But to me it's not really about protecting the kids. Maybe it's just protecting their strategy. Or just not caring to answer to anyone other than their customers and the authority figures of the sport. It's a personal decision what information and tactics a gym chooses to divulge.

ETA: just because they were asked (no matter how nicely) doesn't mean they're required to answer. Not answering is also an answer.

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