All-Star D1 And D2 Competitions

[socratesofcheer]

Exactly. So why wouldn't this work for all star?

High schools and colleges don't have levels. So, hs baseball is hs baseball. There is no level 1 where the pitcher has to throw underhanded so the opposing team can learn how to hit.

 

[King]

High schools and colleges don't have levels. So, hs baseball is hs baseball. There is no level 1 where the pitcher has to throw underhanded so the opposing team can learn how to hit.

They have divisions though, don't they? I thought when my HS won tennis it won 4A for tennis.

 

[socratesofcheer]

They have divisions though, don't they? I thought when my HS won tennis it won 4A for tennis.

Correct. However you don't have class 4A level 1,2,3,4,4.2,5 tennis. So regardless of skill level there are only a few size classifications.

 

[MakeYourMark]

i think lvl 4.2 should be included in the 1-3

 

[King]

Correct. However you don't have class 4A level 1,2,3,4,4.2,5 tennis. So regardless of skill level there are only a few size classifications.

True. Any suggestion on adjustments then? Or just keep things the way they are? We are slowly creeping down to what we need for people and rules (as evident with this rules cycle... slowly.....).

 

[socratesofcheer]

True. Any suggestion on adjustments then? Or just keep things the way they are? We are slowly creeping down to what we need for people and rules (as evident with this rules cycle... slowly.....).

Not really. I'm just so tired of divisions being created for no real reason. While multiple levels/ages are a great concept, they certainly have their negatives. I really miss the days of having 10-20 teams in a division. I miss teams getting upset that they got 12th place one year and coming back the next year and moving up to 4th.

I guess I'm just tired of having all-star cheerleading become a feel good, politically correct showcase where everyone wins.

 

[King]

Not really. I'm just so tired of divisions being created for no real reason. While multiple levels/ages are a great concept, they certainly have their negatives. I really miss the days of having 10-20 teams in a division. I miss teams getting upset that they got 12th place one year and coming back the next year and moving up to 4th.

I guess I'm just tired of having all-star cheerleading become a feel good, politically correct showcase where everyone wins.

Hah. You should try suggesting they make large 30 so more teams will enter and see what happens.

 

[quitthedrama]

I dont think the required move from D2 to D1 is smart. I can just shut down my company, start a new one or sell it off, and then start again at D2. Anytime there is an unenforceable rule, I don't think it should be there.

I think you make your gym declaration in March if you are D1 or D2. You go from there. No changing mid season! And if D1 and D2 gyms are never at the same competition there is less chance a D1 gym can recruit from a D2 at the competition... or the D2 kid could want to go to a D1 gym because they saw them at the competiton.

There should be less divisions in D2 (and no more small gym in either D1 or D2). Setup mainly

One of the things that bugs me about cheer is we allow people to shift and go as the season progresses. You cannot stop a team from dropping down levels (there is no good way to say you can't do that, just trust me on this... otherwise I gotta write out a 10 paragraph reason of why), but if a gym competes in a realm and has to stick to it for a year that would, again, solidify things.

I love this idea - in theoury. My concern is that competitions in our area hardly ever have more than a half dozen teams in each division for levels 1 - 3, and even less for levels 4 and 5. I think the majority of gyms in our area would be best suited "D2" status, leaving maybe 8 gyms at the most in the "D1" category. There wouldn't be enough competition to sustain the division.

 

[WE All Stars]

How would this work for gyms that already exist and have teams levels 1-5? If they can't be at D1 and D2 events are they going to decide to drop either their level 1-3 or 4-5???

 

[tumbleyoda]

How would this work for gyms that already exist and have teams levels 1-5? If they can't be at D1 and D2 events are they going to decide to drop either their level 1-3 or 4-5???

They would be D1. A D1 one gym would not have to drop its Level 1 - 3 teams.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I love this idea - in theoury. My concern is that competitions in our area hardly ever have more than a half dozen teams in each division for levels 1 - 3, and even less for levels 4 and 5. I think the majority of gyms in our area would be best suited "D2" status, leaving maybe 8 gyms at the most in the "D1" category. There wouldn't be enough competition to sustain the division.

But isnt that part of the problem now? No competition at locals and some time at Nationals except for Cheersport, NCA, Jamfest Indy and UCA Nationals? IIRC from the text I recieved in my daughters division at CanAm there were 3 teams, Youth 2. Or competition that is not enough quality to stand a chance as is being discussed in the Worlds caliber thread for example?

Or do I just imagine all the "they should have never entered that division, competition they had no chance on earth against _______, why dont they just merge" type posts.

 

[brandnewstyle]

I think for worlds in small senior and small coed, it should D1= teams with multiple teams at worlds. D2= teams with only 1 team at worlds... JMO

 

[travnation80]

I revert back to "Every gym started somewhere". I feel like there are PLENTY of avenues for "new/small" gyms to compete and grow. Start small, start simple and grow the right way (if you have questions of this please watch the NACCC video of Green Bay Elite owner). So in simple NO I don't agree with this. I believe that any gym should have the right to compete at any competition at any level, if they get beat they get beat, if they lose kids bc they got beat, they lose kids, if they win (or do really well) and gain kids then they gain kids. I don't feel that new divisions or "special treatment" should be given. There ARE so so many competitions held all over the country currently and I believe creating MORE divisions creates more trouble than its worth. If more gyms would be smarter about their event choices and levels then this would never be an issue. But if you CHOOSE to go to a big comp, get put against and big name (s) and lose or just don't do well it seems like the problem is on the choices you made not on the choices everyone else makes. I'm sorry I just don't see what the problem is?

As far as kids moving all over the place I feel like if THE ID system were put into place, along with a season system that would stop the issue. But year after year kids come and go, sometimes at the beginning of the season sometimes in the middle and sometimes at the end (inevitably right before a big, huge, important competition) but it happens and it happens to everyone. Just like injuries, it happens, you adjust and move on.

After re-reading it sounds harsh and I tried changing it up a bit but I just don't see another way to put it. Let me add by saying IN NO WAY is my gym a "mega" HUGE crazy big name that dominates every competition we go to BUT I feel that the gym I coach at places kids on the appropriate levels (as much as possible) and competes at competitions that fit our style and our program, which has led to growth and continued success over the years. I wish everyone the best!

Co-Signed 100% Compete regardless of where your from or how big or small you are. This is a Strategic planning issue for gyms and that's it.

 

[Allstar1316]

I like the idea but one of the best things about the competitions (to me) is seeing level 5 teams and "big name" gyms!

 

[newcheerdad]

I have several thoughts on the whole Division 1/Division 2 concept, which I've stated in several other threads but I'll expound upon here. This'll probably be a long post, so be warned in advance. :)

First off, we need to make it clear WHY having this division setup would be beneficial - it would be to ensure that teams are matched up and competing against teams of relatively equal skill level. Yes, I understand we already have levels in cheer. But let's be realistic - even as a relative newbie to the sport, I've been to enough competitions to see that not all senior 3 or youth 2 or mini 1 teams are created equal.

Now why aren't they equal? Yes, some of it is resource-driven - while there will always be exceptions, the larger a gym you are, the more likely it is you will field a stronger team. Some of it is based on the team itself, or even the type of team - a half-year team or team that practices once a week for 90 minutes is going to be at a competitive disadvantage over a team that's been going non-stop, three times per week, for the last six months.

So that's why I think the concept of having Division 1 and 2 is a good thing, because it will let the teams that are committed to a year-round, highly competitive environment compete against similar teams. And it will let teams that are less able to compete at that level face teams of similar skills.

So how should this be broken down?

As well as being a "new cheer dad", I've also been involved with youth soccer for many years. Our soccer program has competitive and recreational teams - competitive teams are traveling teams that play in regional tournaments. There's a significant time and financial commitment. Whereas a recreational team will play locally, and the time commitment is considerably smaller. One program, but multiple "levels" of soccer. I would never suggest that recreational teams from our program should be competing against competitive teams.

The USASF recognizes that all-star cheer needs to move in this direction as well, providing an outlet that is lower cost, lower time-commitment. (http://usasf.net/programs/rec/) The gym my daughter belongs to has teams that fit this criteria as well as what you'd consider the more traditional "all-star" teams.

So if we're going to have a Division 1/Division 2 setup, I feel like it has to be on a team-by-team basis. Your entry-level teams can compete in Division 2 against other entry-level teams and/or emerging programs. Your traditional all-star teams can compete in Division 1.

Logistical Issues:

• I would have teams declare they were D1 or D2 before the beginning of the competition season, perhaps by the end of May. Once you declare your division, you cannot change it.
• Athletes would have to declare whether they were going to be Division 1 or Division 2 before they could compete in a USASF-sanctioned event. And once you compete for a team in a particular division, you can't compete in the other division for the remainder of the year. That would take care of the concern that D1 programs would poach D2 athletes - they simply wouldn't be able to (at least for that competition season). It would also make it self-evident that a D1 athlete could never crossover to a D2 team.
• If your team wants to compete level 4 or 5 (other than senior 4.2) they have to compete Division 1. Division 2 encompasses levels 1-3 and senior 4.2 only.
• I would consider any major "national" event (Jamfest, NCA, etc.) to be a Division 1-only event. Depending on the size of D2, EP's might want to consider a "national" for D2 teams.
• However, I would allow event producers, at their discretion, to allow Division 1 and 2 teams to participate at the same competition. But never against each other, and in different sessions. (Division 1 competes on Saturday a.m., Division 2 on Saturday p.m., for example) As I've said before, there is a real concern about the viability of some events if you don't allow D1 and D2 teams to compete together.