All-Star Draft Release Of The Universal Scoresheet

[5-6-7-8]

Very much so. Every time we go back to comparative we then go back to rubric. I don't understand swimming upstream.

The good news is if there is ONE scoresheet there is ONE place that needs fixing.

I have said many times in here that I don't care where we start, we just need to actually start. While this is probably a polar opposite to what I imagined, at least it is a start.

Though I still feel that there should be one technical component of the score that should be objective (like a start value or something.)


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[Keep_Believing]

Can't they just let the fierce board experts like @King make the universal scoresheet for us.

 

[King]

I have said many times in here that I don't care where we start, we just need to actually start. While this is probably a polar opposite to what I imagined, at least it is a start.

Though I still feel that there should be one technical component of the score that should be objective (like a start value or something.)


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Well the key is data. Generating dating and learning how to graph data. And publicizing ALL results for each team in each level. It will expose weaknesses in any scoring system and allow corrective measurements.

 

[BlueCat]

I'm not sure I understand why it would help anything for judges to sign scoresheets. What is their name on paper going to do for a coach? The judging panels aren't hidden, so if you know someone up there, you'll be able to see.

At this point, no one but the EP has any say in the hiring process of judges. From working for an EP, I can tell you that if our judging coordinator sees one judge consistently making mistakes or scoring inconsistently at an event, it's almost certain that the judge in question will not be hired back. Coaches don't need the judge's name to challenge their scores. Believe it or not, EPs want you to have a good experience. If we see customers constantly challenging one specific scoresheet (scoresheets are tied to judges), we want to fix the problem. Unhappy customers are harder to deal with than firing a bad judge and having to find a new, better one.


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We generally want the whole system to be more out in the open. It is difficult to have accountability when judging is practically anonymous (from a coach point of view.) My conversations from EPs make me believe they measure judge ability in large part by how similar scores are to other judges. This isn't necessarily a good measure of accuracy at all. In fact most of my conversations with people about scoring systems make my inner statistics snob want to scream in frustration.

Open scoring would make good judges more valuable and bad ones more of a liability. I suppose both of those are bad for EPs, so perhaps that is a part of the reason that we haven't seen that so far.

 

[King]

We generally want the whole system to be more out in the open. It is difficult to have accountability when judging is practically anonymous (from a coach point of view.) My conversations from EPs make me believe they measure judge ability in large part by how similar scores are to other judges. This isn't necessarily a good measure of accuracy at all. In fact most of my conversations with people about scoring systems make my inner statistics snob want to scream in frustration.

Open scoring would make good judges more valuable and bad ones more of a liability. I suppose both of those are bad for EPs, so perhaps that is a part of the reason that we haven't seen that so far.

Where's a good Russian judge when you need one?

Because scoring is so subjective now it is down to ones personal opinion and anonymous. This is pretty much like trying to impress random YouTube commenters.


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[Official OWECheer]

We generally want the whole system to be more out in the open. It is difficult to have accountability when judging is practically anonymous (from a coach point of view.) My conversations from EPs make me believe they measure judge ability in large part by how similar scores are to other judges. This isn't necessarily a good measure of accuracy at all. In fact most of my conversations with people about scoring systems make my inner statistics snob want to scream in frustration.

Open scoring would make good judges more valuable and bad ones more of a liability. I suppose both of those are bad for EPs, so perhaps that is a part of the reason that we haven't seen that so far.

That reminds me of the old school scoring in figure skating. Judges-in-training who were scoring skaters HAD to make sure that their scores matched those of the current judges. If not, they would fall under serious scrutiny. Conformity was a must.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I'm not sure I understand why it would help anything for judges to sign scoresheets. What is their name on paper going to do for a coach? The judging panels aren't hidden, so if you know someone up there, you'll be able to see.

At this point, no one but the EP has any say in the hiring process of judges. From working for an EP, I can tell you that if our judging coordinator sees one judge consistently making mistakes or scoring inconsistently at an event, it's almost certain that the judge in question will not be hired back. Coaches don't need the judge's name to challenge their scores. Believe it or not, EPs want you to have a good experience. If we see customers constantly challenging one specific scoresheet (scoresheets are tied to judges), we want to fix the problem. Unhappy customers are harder to deal with than firing a bad judge and having to find a new, better one.


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Accountability. Even if there's no current system in place, they should be accountable to the coaches for their scoring.


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[mollymags]

Accountability. Even if there's no current system in place, they should be accountable to the coaches for their scoring.


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Fair enough. My personal opinion is that until every judge is USASF trained and certified, the accountability should fall on the EP to provide a competent judging panel.


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[yojaehs]

Where's a good Russian judge when you need one?

Because scoring is so subjective now it is down to ones personal opinion and anonymous. This is pretty much like trying to impress random YouTube commenters.


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That is ultimately my main issue. We are giving majority of control on what an untrained or very limited trained judge "feels". The hours and hours put into these routines will fall into the hands of an opinion.


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[yojaehs]

I pity the person/group of people that have to put together a COP for cheerleading.... That would take a LONG time.

It really wouldn't/shouldn't. I think the key is for one level, one category to be done and ironed out. Once that is done the other levels & categories would have a base to go off of. Considering the time that's gone into the 800 million score sheets over the past 5 years it would be much less. I've penciled out level 1 tumbling before and it took about an hr.


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[King]

It really wouldn't/shouldn't. I think the key is for one level, one category to be done and ironed out. Once that is done the other levels & categories would have a base to go off of. Considering the time that's gone into the 800 million score sheets over the past 5 years it would be much less. I've penciled out level 1 tumbling before and it took about an hr.


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Start with baskets. That is the easiest category to do. Very few options.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

It really wouldn't/shouldn't. I think the key is for one level, one category to be done and ironed out. Once that is done the other levels & categories would have a base to go off of. Considering the time that's gone into the 800 million score sheets over the past 5 years it would be much less. I've penciled out level 1 tumbling before and it took about an hr.


The Fierce Board App! || iPhone || Android

Level 1 tumbling is rather simple though. Imagine the person creating a COP for level 5/6 stunts or 5/6 pyramids. It's do-able, but I don't envy the person having to do it.

 

[King]

Why does every skill have to be judged the same way? Why not judge jumps and baskets for execution, tumbling for timing and difficulty, stunts for difficulty, pyramids and dance for creativity?

 

[Official OWECheer]

Start with baskets. That is the easiest category to do. Very few options.

They're no longer required on the UCA scoresheet, so I don't know how effective that will be.

 

[luv2cheer92]

They're no longer required on the UCA scoresheet, so I don't know how effective that will be.

Wait, what? UCA is Varsity so they use the Varsity scoresheet. Did I miss something?