All-Star Draft Release Of The Universal Scoresheet

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With cheer live and live streams it is hard to keep routines secret. With this kind of scoring will there be benefits to going last?
Yes the teams to go at the end of the session consistently score higher. There were some statistics done for Worlds 2013 which were very telling and teams making or missing semis or finals became known as the "bingo ball effect"

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With cheer live and live streams it is hard to keep routines secret. With this kind of scoring will there be benefits to going last?

Well, you don't want to see the other routines when competition season already started, you want to see what your competition works on during summer - secret videos will be highly requested during this summer. And having a full-routine video of your competition before they debut the routine is like winning the jackpot!
 
Well then, that's the problem! I've heard wonderful things about how well paid and trained gymnastics judges are, I think cheer should take note.
I don't think ANY cheer judges could or would put the time in required. Ask ANYONE that's tested to judge gymnastics and they will tell you the DAYS they spent studying and they will compare it to a college final. I think it's a culture and mentality. I don't know the fix but I know in order for cheer judges to get better the whole process needs to be taken more serious. I'm curious what other sports are judged by the event. Meaning do the Dallas Cowboys use their referees or are referees trained independently? I think a judges association is crucial and it needs to be independent so it can be controlled without bias. Yes, there events where judges do a good job but still there is no way to judge judges. It is truly a guessing game. There is no standard. ANYONE can be a judge.


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I don't think ANY cheer judges could or would put the time in required. Ask ANYONE that's tested to judge gymnastics and they will tell you the DAYS they spent studying and they will compare it to a college final. I think it's a culture and mentality. I don't know the fix but I know in order for cheer judges to get better the whole process needs to be taken more serious. I'm curious what other sports are judged by the event. Meaning do the Dallas Cowboys use their referees or are referees trained independently? I think a judges association is crucial and it needs to be independent so it can be controlled without bias. Yes, there events where judges do a good job but still there is no way to judge judges. It is truly a guessing game. There is no standard. ANYONE can be a judge.


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I agree completely. Until we form an official judging body, we will continue to look like a backyard activity as opposed to an official sport.
 
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In gymnastics, since there is a code of points it is essentially you versus the scoresheet. With comparative scoring, it makes it impossible to compete against the scoresheet because the same routine on the same scoresheet is scored differently from competition to competition. And this is why cheerleading isn't taken seriously. It's not consistent.


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In gymnastics, since there is a code of points it is essentially you versus the scoresheet. With comparative scoring, it makes it impossible to compete against the scoresheet because the same routine on the same scoresheet is scored differently from competition to competition. And this is why cheerleading isn't taken seriously. It's not consistent.


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Which makes me wonder why comparative scoring is even being allowed on the new scoresheet. And what about the pancake dismount, for example. It looked creative when people first saw it, but then 500 other teams did it and it lost its sparkle. What if I am judging the Small Senior 4 (random, I know) division at a comp, and the first team on the floor does it, and I am wowed and score them high for creativity? How can that objectively compare to the last team that performs the same dismount (like every other team in the division)? I would have to give them a low score. Even worse, what if the judge sitting next to me has seen that same dismount at other competitions and they give the first team a low score? This can't be good. :banghead:
 
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Well, you don't want to see the other routines when competition season already started, you want to see what your competition works on during summer - secret videos will be highly requested during this summer. And having a full-routine video of your competition before they debut the routine is like winning the jackpot!
I predict boredom in all these gym showcases that cheerlive and CU are covering. Any bets how many marked stunts and pyramids we'll see?


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I pity the person/group of people that have to put together a COP for cheerleading.... That would take a LONG time.
 
I predict boredom in all these gym showcases that cheerlive and CU are covering. Any bets how many marked stunts and pyramids we'll see?


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Or they could just not invite/broadcast their showcases on CL/CU/social media... *gasp* crazy idea, I know.


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I don't think ANY cheer judges could or would put the time in required. Ask ANYONE that's tested to judge gymnastics and they will tell you the DAYS they spent studying and they will compare it to a college final. I think it's a culture and mentality. I don't know the fix but I know in order for cheer judges to get better the whole process needs to be taken more serious. I'm curious what other sports are judged by the event. Meaning do the Dallas Cowboys use their referees or are referees trained independently? I think a judges association is crucial and it needs to be independent so it can be controlled without bias. Yes, there events where judges do a good job but still there is no way to judge judges. It is truly a guessing game. There is no standard. ANYONE can be a judge.


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NFL officials (all Football officials down to high school , actually) are trained through an officiating organization. The officials travel as a crew to different stadiums each week. In levels below the NFL (SEC, PAC10, even high school) the coaches may request to NOT have a crew due to issues with past calls. Both coaches must agree for the crew to be changed. Could you imagine if this was an option in cheer?


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NFL officials (all Football officials down to high school , actually) are trained through an officiating organization. The officials travel as a crew to different stadiums each week. In levels below the NFL (SEC, PAC10, even high school) the coaches may request to NOT have a crew due to issues with past calls. Both coaches must agree for the crew to be changed. Could you imagine if this was an option in cheer?


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Interesting question it raises for me, do the judges sign score sheets? I've never seen one after the fact. Do coaches know which judges scored them when they get those sheets back?


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Interesting question it raises for me, do the judges sign score sheets? I've never seen one after the fact. Do coaches know which judges scored them when they get those sheets back?


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I've never seen a signed score sheet in 15 years of coaching. I've never coached at Worlds , so it may be different there, but yeah, unless you know the judges and which judge is judging each category, you don't know who scored you.


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I've never seen a signed score sheet in 15 years of coaching. I've never coached at Worlds , so it may be different there, but yeah, unless you know the judges and which judge is judging each category, you don't know who scored you.


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In my most diplomatic, professional manner of response ever....

That blows.


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Yes the teams to go at the end of the session consistently score higher. There were some statistics done for Worlds 2013 which were very telling and teams making or missing semis or finals became known as the "bingo ball effect"

Proud supporter of the IBFC since 1997
Agreed 100%

For example at NCA in small junior 2 division.

Arguably the best team we were against we knew this before the comp. Went first in our division and killed it. The next couple after them were okay, then the rest at some point were not even teams that could max out. We went dead last in the division. We all knew it was a toss up between us and the team that went first after seeing both performances.

We ended up ahead of them by 1.3 points after day one with them in 2nd. Then a couple were close behind them and the rest dropped way off the radar.


Our parents were ecstatic, and though I was loving the lead and I didn't doubt that we shouldn't maybe be in first. Parents were like oh we can drop tomorrow and still win.. I was like um no. Tomorrow they go only right before us. Our score barely increased the next day when we were perfect. They were perfect again and their score jumped up huge. They didn't beat us but there score was up there with ours. I know had they of went toward the end after the lower teams in the division they would of scored higher too. Since we went right after the lowest teams the judges were probably overly impressed comparing us so we scored high. That second place team was Amazing!!!!


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In my most diplomatic, professional manner of response ever....

That blows.


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I'm not sure I understand why it would help anything for judges to sign scoresheets. What is their name on paper going to do for a coach? The judging panels aren't hidden, so if you know someone up there, you'll be able to see.

At this point, no one but the EP has any say in the hiring process of judges. From working for an EP, I can tell you that if our judging coordinator sees one judge consistently making mistakes or scoring inconsistently at an event, it's almost certain that the judge in question will not be hired back. Coaches don't need the judge's name to challenge their scores. Believe it or not, EPs want you to have a good experience. If we see customers constantly challenging one specific scoresheet (scoresheets are tied to judges), we want to fix the problem. Unhappy customers are harder to deal with than firing a bad judge and having to find a new, better one.


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