All-Star From Courtney Pope - "the View From Backstage At The Naccc..."

[ceamomof2]

As a parent of a child who cheers under Courtney, I can honestly say that she cares about the kids and the sport. She has so impressed me. You see, I am a parent of a 9 year old child with a double full who cheered in Raleigh but decided, because of my child's ability, to drive to K-ville to give youth elite a shot. Wow, in return I got to be part of something special. Coming from a swimming background (and some gymnastic tumbling classes), my child has fluorished under Courtney's direction. The possibilities are endless. If youth 5 is eliminated or restricted, this sport which has grown so much in the recent years, my lose some of its finest athletes. The stand-out kids shouldn't be held back. My 15 year old daughter would give her right leg (figuratively speaking of course) to be able to do the things her sister can. It's not a desire thing, it's an God-given ability thing. Other sports don't ask kids to hold back and not do what they were born to do. They encourage and direct so athletes can be the best they can. Please ask yourself if your child had the ability, talent, and direction of the right coaches, shouldnt they be allowed to push on and rise above the norm. There is a place for youth 5 in the sport of cheerleading.... and one location is right around the corner from me in Kernersville, NC.

 

[hopskipandjump]

As a parent of a child who cheers under Courtney, I can honestly say that she cares about the kids and the sport. She has so impressed me. You see, I am a parent of a 9 year old child with a double full who cheered in Raleigh but decided, because of my child's ability, to drive to K-ville to give youth elite a shot. Wow, in return I got to be part of something special. Coming from a swimming background (and some gymnastic tumbling classes), my child has fluorished under Courtney's direction. The possibilities are endless. If youth 5 is eliminated or restricted, this sport which has grown so much in the recent years, my lose some of its finest athletes. The stand-out kids shouldn't be held back. My 15 year old daughter would give her right leg (figuratively speaking of course) to be able to do the things her sister can. It's not a desire thing, it's an God-given ability thing. Other sports don't ask kids to hold back and not do what they were born to do. They encourage and direct so athletes can be the best they can. Please ask yourself if your child had the ability, talent, and direction of the right coaches, shouldnt they be allowed to push on and rise above the norm. There is a place for youth 5 in the sport of cheerleading.... and one location is right around the corner from me in Kernersville, NC.

Please don't misunderstand me when I say that I feel like they (big name gyms) don't care, because its clear they would not be where they are today without caring a LOT. And I think I have heard Ms. Pasquale say she didn't get any type of payment for something like ten years, so I know much of this is altruistic. What happens though, in my humble opinion, is with a certain level of success is a certain level of forfeit. Call it lack of caring? Maybe, maybe not, but I prefer to think of it as looking after your own best interests. Large gym owners generally can afford to attend these meetings. Since a large portion of my disposable income goes to keeping my own gym afloat, it's often hard for me to attend one. (I am not whining or complaining either) . Just offering an opinion. Thank you.

 

[King]

Oh well, however it was meant, we'll never know

"plane" just seems like a strange word to use

"topic".. "rule"... "division" etc are all better to use in place of plane

if kingston was right its GAME ON in Indy hahah jeez I cant wait

For the record, I took plane as plane of existence.

 

[BlueCat]

While I would also like to see Y5 stay, I don't think it is fair to categorize everyone who votes the other way as being selfish, uncaring, or anti-children. We can have differences of opinion without going down that route.

 

[King]

While I would also like to see Y5 stay, I don't think it is fair to categorize everyone who votes the other way as being selfish, uncaring, or anti-children. We can have differences of opinion without going down that route.

Why do you hate America?

 

[cheermommaRN]

I personally appreciated Billy showing up and representing the small gyms of DFW, even though we are not part of one. Maybe more small gyms need to do that, band together, create a voice and then make it heard. And I don't think Elaine was leaving Courtney out to dry, she said she would love to see it stay but if it meant helping the industry and it got passed she would support it. I may be wrong but didn't the owner of Stingrays support it also?
Having the honor of my child competing with two of the elite gyms in the country (one of which being quite large) I can tell you that both gyms care greatly about their children..period.
Also other sports DO hold kids back to help them perfect their skills so they can build and grow properly. The example Debbie Love gave was perfect regarding the need to not apply "bandaids" to tumbling and to make sure kids are strong in their skills. In select soccer, you can be the best 7 year old on the field...you still have to stay in Academy league until your 10...no exceptions. Even if you "play up". In competitive gymnastics a child may have all the skills necessary to move up but if they don't score a certain AA at a certain comp...they don't get cleared to compete the next level...It's called progression and right now I don't feel it's stressed enough in this sport. Yes we do have some elite 8 year olds out there and they are amazing but would it destroy them to hold back and become stronger, possibly having a longer career? And preventing them from burning out or blowing a knee at 15?

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

Why does our industry have to be like so many others? Why does there have to be all of this "behind-the-scenes" stuff? Isn't there already enough drama between gyms? Why does this fire have to be fueled?

 

[Cheerfan1234]

Allstar cheerleading is all about progression, no? And college is the pinnacle, correct? I wonder...If a powerful level 5 gym owner presented the idea that double fulls should be eliminated because there are hundreds of documented injuries and you can't even throw them in college, how many of the same people who want youth level 5 eliminated for "safety" reasons would back this option?

 

[kristenthegreat]

And I don't think Elaine was leaving Courtney out to dry, she said she would love to see it stay but if it meant helping the industry and it got passed she would support it.
Also other sports DO hold kids back to help them perfect their skills so they can build and grow properly. The example Debbie Love gave was perfect regarding the need to not apply "bandaids" to tumbling and to make sure kids are strong in their skills. In competitive gymnastics a child may have all the skills necessary to move up but if they don't score a certain AA at a certain comp...they don't get cleared to compete the next level...It's called progression and right now I don't feel it's stressed enough in this sport.

If I didn't get a certain AA in YMCA competitive gymnastics, I couldn't clear to next level. Period. And that was average YMCA..you just don't. I made it to Regionals, I placed well, I moved up. Debbie Love took it down to saying our BHS weren't strong enough, and that THAT was the biggest problem with tumbling, first and foremost. She said so many wonderful things, I wish I could have saved them all!

And I took it to mean the same way you did, that she would love to keep it but if it was better for the industry and the kids to get rid of it, she would support that decision. Just because some people have a team in a certain division, doesn't mean they necessarily agree with all aspects of it. Elaine also mentioned how her girls are more hesitant about standing tumbling than they are about running (during the 'change standing tumbling' discussion). Including Stars. That's not something you toss out lightly..

 

[wcdad]

I don't have a fishbowl or a secretary, but what I am about to write may very well land me saying "you had me at hello" to my lone employee Jerry Macguire style. I'm all about falling in love, so I think I could live with that result ( especially if Celine Dion can sing the soundtrack to my movie ). What I cannot live with are the behind the scenes politics and self serving agendas that drive the force of the sport I love. What I cannot live with are the ways the system is manipulated and maneuvered in the name of kids safety when the bottom line begs the question..."Who does this benefit?".

Courtney Smith-Pope

How can you make such an argument. As a parent I think our children's safety should be taken into account just as much as the bottom line of a Gym, if not more. As a coach and owner and a parent I would think you would have to agree. You as every other owner put your bottom line first. You have to, If you can not make ends meet than there will be no program. Your Program Does Not have an off season, if you did you would lose income. Your program encourages cross overs, agin it is a business model and choice that works for you, and you have argued for it, but it also can be argued is not a safe one for young athletes.

I have made my point on Double teaming and I feel that same arguments can be made in support of this potential rule change.

A young athletes body is not developed to with stand the continues repetitive twisting motion that this sport initials. Young or old the human body needs cross training and core strengthening. This sport/industries is not set up to provide that. I have not seen one gym unless they practice in a gymnastics center where cross training is utilized.

We have no season, it goes 12 months a year. There is no off time for these kids to rest and get healthy. Ask any Orthopedic or Trainer in any sport, the body needs time off to recover and get stronger. EVERY MAJOR SPORT has an off season. For the simple fact that the athletes need the time to rest. In Little League and Base Ball they have pitch counts for the pitchers so the kids and athletes do not blow out the arm. The young kids in this sport, they are pounding there legs, knees, ankles and lower backs over and over again. Even horses are not run year round!

Look at all of the Braces that are on a floor during a comp or in the gyms. Yes we as parents as well as Coaches have to take a stand some times. It is a proven fact that it is not healthy for the body. We are starting our childern out much earlier than ever before and are asking them to perform at a World Class Level sooner. I know I want my daughter to be able to walk down the isle when she gets married. I want to be able to dance with her on her wedding day. I have seen to many injuries that have left kids almost crippled where they are in pain to get out of bed in the morning and they are not even in college let alone out of college yet.

My daughter spent 12 to 16 hrs a week in the gym working on her skills, 2 stress fractures on her ankle later it was her Orthopedic that was shocked that there is no regulations on the sport for training, progression and repetition as well as an off season.

A competitive gymnast uses cross training. They do not work on the same skill over and over. They will be working on core and then will be allowed to do 2 maybe 3 passes of the skill and than move on to another set of core exercises and repeat the process for a different element. They must perfect that skill and as important the technique before they can advance to another. They have a progression they must follow, a 6 year old is limited to what can be done. There is an off season.

I have yet to see a cheer team utilize core and cross training or progression on a regular basis. It has only been the past several years that Cheerleading has developed to a year round sport. The human body no matter the age can not take the punishment. There needs to be time off for the body to recover no matter your age. We need to set rules of progression to keep our sport strong.


The health of the child athlete should be protected by parents and coaches alike, as well as the NACC, USASF and its Member Gyms. There will still be a place for these kids to compete. There will always be a place for the Highly Skilled Talented Child to compete, Those few are the minority however and will allow the majority to progress and be in the proper division as the progress.

I see no harm that will come from this possible rule change. If it protects a child from injury, forces progression as well as helping the bottom line, How is that so bad? As a Coach and a Parent I would hope you felt the same.

"Save the Cheerleader"

 

[Deleted member 5411]

I liked what the Champion Cheer (I think that was the program) owner said when she reminded everyone that a lot of the things to be voted on affected other things that were to be voted on. If I remember correctly she was referring to the statement that was made "If you don't have a dog in the fight, don't vote". Of course, that was a ridiculous statement because that is not the democratic way, as well as being rather arrogant. BUT I did like how Champion reminded everyone that just because they may not have a Youth 5, and may never have a Youth 5, the vote does concern the Junior levels, also.
It will be interesting to see what changes will be voted in. :/

 

[tumbleyoda]

Since we are pulling the gymnastics comparisions out here is another. Prior to the 70's USA had no competitive chance in Gymnastics with other gymnasts across the world. No matter how good we were, we were consistently being beat by Russia, China, and Japan. We trained differently, we approached progressions differently, we lived it differently. As a result we had some good individual gymnasts scattered around the country. Sometimes there would be a breakthrough individual performance. But we were not consistently developing gymnasts in # and with competitive chance against the then Soviet Bloc countries.

In the late 70's through the 90's the USA began to imitate what was being done in the Soviet Bloc countries instead of complain that they could not beat them. They identified the younger gymnasts who were tested out (flexibility, conditioning, speed, power - not necessarily skill) and put them into what were commonly called Hot Shot programs. These Hot Shots trained as a group at an accelerated rate to move up and progress as a group. The traditional progression tracks fo other gymnasts still existed. But generally speaking those in Hot Shot programs excelled at a faster rate than those in the traditional program. This allowed several gymnastics facitlites in the USA to build strong programs to be competitive around the World instead of just having a couple of strong individuals every now and then. What we see now is a direct result of practices that were changed and adapted many years ago.

That being said I completely understand the place Youth 5 could serve if it was used properly. I would like to see some restrictions but not to eliminate it. The restrictions may encourage some gyms to take a chance. Of course that s not guarenteed. It has a place if used properly and with wisdom. Just because a child can throw a skill does not mean they should compete it. The amount of repetitions a child does has a direct bearing on muscle fatigue and increased injury. The younger the child those percentages go up. This can be offset by conditioning and limiting the amount of reps.

What I do not ever agree with are any coach telling other coaches that they should field a team in any division just so they can have some competition. Just because 10 gyms can field a Youth 5 team does not mean every gym in America can or should. You choose the division and teams that work for you and your program. We owe it to the children and parents to do what we do to the best of our ability. If it is outside of our ability or vision then we owe it to send them to a gym than can with our blessings.

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

How can you make such an argument. As a parent I think our children's safety should be taken into account just as much as the bottom line of a Gym, if not more. As a coach and owner and a parent I would think you would have to agree. You as every other owner put your bottom line first. You have to, If you can not make ends meet than there will be no program. Your Program Does Not have an off season, if you did you would lose income. Your program encourages cross overs, agin it is a business model and choice that works for you, and you have argued for it, but it also can be argued is not a safe one for young athletes.

I have made my point on Double teaming and I feel that same arguments can be made in support of this potential rule change.

A young athletes body is not developed to with stand the continues repetitive twisting motion that this sport initials. Young or old the human body needs cross training and core strengthening. This sport/industries is not set up to provide that. I have not seen one gym unless they practice in a gymnastics center where cross training is utilized.

We have no season, it goes 12 months a year. There is no off time for these kids to rest and get healthy. Ask any Orthopedic or Trainer in any sport, the body needs time off to recover and get stronger. EVERY MAJOR SPORT has an off season. For the simple fact that the athletes need the time to rest. In Little League and Base Ball they have pitch counts for the pitchers so the kids and athletes do not blow out the arm. The young kids in this sport, they are pounding there legs, knees, ankles and lower backs over and over again. Even horses are not run year round!

Look at all of the Braces that are on a floor during a comp or in the gyms. Yes we as parents as well as Coaches have to take a stand some times. It is a proven fact that it is not healthy for the body. We are starting our childern out much earlier than ever before and are asking them to perform at a World Class Level sooner. I know I want my daughter to be able to walk down the isle when she gets married. I want to be able to dance with her on her wedding day. I have seen to many injuries that have left kids almost crippled where they are in pain to get out of bed in the morning and they are not even in college let alone out of college yet.

My daughter spent 12 to 16 hrs a week in the gym working on her skills, 2 stress fractures on her ankle later it was her Orthopedic that was shocked that there is no regulations on the sport for training, progression and repetition as well as an off season.
A competitive gymnast uses cross training. They do not work on the same skill over and over. They will be working on core and then will be allowed to do 2 maybe 3 passes of the skill and than move on to another set of core exercises and repeat the process for a different element. They must perfect that skill and as important the technique before they can advance to another. They have a progression they must follow, a 6 year old is limited to what can be done. There is an off season.

I have yet to see a cheer team utilize core and cross training or progression on a regular basis. It has only been the past several years that Cheerleading has developed to a year round sport. The human body no matter the age can not take the punishment. There needs to be time off for the body to recover no matter your age. We need to set rules of progression to keep our sport strong.


The health of the child athlete should be protected by parents and coaches alike, as well as the NACC, USASF and its Member Gyms. There will still be a place for these kids to compete. There will always be a place for the Highly Skilled Talented Child to compete, Those few are the minority however and will allow the majority to progress and be in the proper division as the progress.
I see no harm that will come from this possible rule change. If it protects a child from injury, forces progression as well as helping the bottom line, How is that so bad? As a Coach and a Parent I would hope you felt the same.

"Save the Cheerleader"

I can't answer for Courtney, only she can do that, but I think that you misinterpreted the sentence. She was not saying that you should not use the safety of these kids to determine your vote, but that you have to look at who the rule benefits that should be looked at. A lot of the rule changes benefit the large gym owners and their businesses. That is what she was hinting at when she talked about the espensive resort thing in Florida. I have heard Courtney at try-outs when she starts thinking about kids for youth 5...She knows how much being on a team like that can help these kids to grow. She cares about their safety, but she is also looking at who this team benefits the most...the kids.

And it really depends on the gym how much the kids are doing and if they have an off season. Yes CEA uses crossovers. I have been one of them for a couple of years, but we do not abuse them. Last year they canceled a team because 15 out of 20 girls were crossovers and they felt it was a pointless team. A lot of girls say they want to be crossovers at try-outs, but they don't get their wish. Each of our teams only practice once a week, maybe twice if there is a big competition. Two? Maybe three hours a week...isn't a big deal. School cheerleading squads practice more than that and they tumble on much harder floors than all-stars. And summer practices aren't mandatory and practices are usually shorter. Yes they are great for skill building, but honestly you don't have to go, you won't be penalized except maybe in your own skill progression if you don't go. I have NEVER heard a coach at CEA yell or reprimand kid for not being at practice in the summer. Most of the gyms around NC are like this too. Summer is their off season. They may go from one practice during the summer to two during the season, but their not hard practices and you don't have to be there. Do you think that professional athletes are not required to do workouts and crosstrainings during their off seasons? Of course they are! they still have to keep their bodies in shape and conditioned...we may not have a pronounced off season, but isn't that what we do in the summer, keep our bodies in shape and conditioned?

 

[ztaprincess]

"She knows how much being on a team like that can help these kids to grow. She cares about their safety, but she is also looking at who this team benefits the most...the kids."
If this is the case then she should be about restricting Youth 5. I feel like hearing her speak and reading her response she is pointing fingers and saying everyone wants to get rid of youth 5 but that is not what I got out of it at all. They want to make it safer. I'm not saying that some aren't for completely eliminating the division, but I got the feeling that most just wanted to make the division safer for their little bodies. Being on a competitive team might be good for the kids to "grow", but their safety would come first no matter what if I were a gym owner.

 

[wcdad]

I can't answer for Courtney, only she can do that, but I think that you misinterpreted the sentence. She was not saying that you should not use the safety of these kids to determine your vote, but that you have to look at who the rule benefits that should be looked at. A lot of the rule changes benefit the large gym owners and their businesses. That is what she was hinting at when she talked about the espensive resort thing in Florida. I have heard Courtney at try-outs when she starts thinking about kids for youth 5...She knows how much being on a team like that can help these kids to grow. She cares about their safety, but she is also looking at who this team benefits the most...the kids.

And it really depends on the gym how much the kids are doing and if they have an off season. Yes CEA uses crossovers. I have been one of them for a couple of years, but we do not abuse them. Last year they canceled a team because 15 out of 20 girls were crossovers and they felt it was a pointless team. A lot of girls say they want to be crossovers at try-outs, but they don't get their wish. Each of our teams only practice once a week, maybe twice if there is a big competition. Two? Maybe three hours a week...isn't a big deal. School cheerleading squads practice more than that and they tumble on much harder floors than all-stars. And summer practices aren't mandatory and practices are usually shorter. Yes they are great for skill building, but honestly you don't have to go, you won't be penalized except maybe in your own skill progression if you don't go. I have NEVER heard a coach at CEA yell or reprimand kid for not being at practice in the summer. Most of the gyms around NC are like this too. Summer is their off season. They may go from one practice during the summer to two during the season, but their not hard practices and you don't have to be there. Do you think that professional athletes are not required to do workouts and crosstrainings during their off seasons? Of course they are! they still have to keep their bodies in shape and conditioned...we may not have a pronounced off season, but isn't that what we do in the summer, keep our bodies in shape and conditioned?

I know they do. But the key word is cross training. They are not doing the same skills during the off season. A football player is not putting the pads on and hitting. He is swimming, bike riding, running, stretching, everything but.. Same with a base ball player. A pitcher will not throw until spring training. There was just a thing on real sports about the pitchers of the teams that make the play offs and World Series are in a disadvantage because they do not have the extra 2 months off.

In cheerleading they tumble their best pass over and over and over. I have seen MANY programs end a practice with the team throwing standing tucks until there is one person left. Or the last pass of the night being the hardest.. This is not healthy. The body can not withstand the pounding and twisting.

We in Cheerleading do not utilize cross training in any way from my observations over the 15 years I have been involved.