All-Star From Courtney Pope - "the View From Backstage At The Naccc..."

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

"She knows how much being on a team like that can help these kids to grow. She cares about their safety, but she is also looking at who this team benefits the most...the kids."
If this is the case then she should be about restricting Youth 5. I feel like hearing her speak and reading her response she is pointing fingers and saying everyone wants to get rid of youth 5 but that is not what I got out of it at all. They want to make it safer. I'm not saying that some aren't for completely eliminating the division, but I got the feeling that most just wanted to make the division safer for their little bodies. Being on a competitive team might be good for the kids to "grow", but their safety would come first no matter what if I were a gym owner.

I think this is what is causing the most discussion on the boards right now. You got one thing from it. I got one thing from it. Courtney got one thing from it. WCDad got something from it. SharkDad got something from it. Tumbleyoda got something from it...everyone got something different out of it and it is up to us on what to do with these opinions. Honestly, I think everyone should put their opinion out there so that we can see other people's perspectives. Someone else might approach it a different way than you and you have an aha! moment. I'm not trying to convert someone to the save youth 5 campaign. I'm trying to let my opinion be heard and learn from other people's opinions. Can't this be a learning environment and not somewhere where we end up defending certain people and attacking each other? (no you didn't attack me but I have seen it done)

 

[Drkilluzionz]

I don't have a fishbowl or a secretary, but what I am about to write may very well land me saying "you had me at hello" to my lone employee Jerry Macguire style. I'm all about falling in love, so I think I could live with that result ( especially if Celine Dion can sing the soundtrack to my movie ). What I cannot live with are the behind the scenes politics and self serving agendas that drive the force of the sport I love. What I cannot live with are the ways the system is manipulated and maneuvered in the name of kids safety when the bottom line begs the question..."Who does this benefit?".

I am Courtney, I own Cheer Extreme, and it has come time to put my foot down. If you care about allstar cheerleading, if it has made a difference in your life, please read what I have to say and pass it along.

For your information, the "rules cycle" has several components.

Step 1: This season's began in Doral, a posh resort in Miami, where several gym owners frequently inhabit. There we discuss the matters that lie at the "heart" of allstar cheerleading. There in the seclusion of palm trees where anyone can attend, but few can afford we hammer out the details of the proposals to be presented at the NACCC. The conversation is manipulated in such a way to present on the surface that is about the industry as a whole, but inevitably what ACTUALLY is discussed turns out to precisely the matters which affect those in attendance ( almost exclusively very successful Level 5 gym owners ).

Step 2: "We" as a people are allowed to submit rule proposals. The USASF and NACCC went to great lengths to include all proposals on the voting slate. Hats off to them for their time and effort and the slate itself was very well put together.

Step 3: The "naccc inaugural committee" which is composed of those people who were on the original committee...years, and years, and years ago meets the night before the actual meeting. Most of those people aren't even in the sport anymore. Those that are chosen to replace retired members are self selected by the leadership of the NACCC. This was supposed to be a voter process by the masses, but for some reason that didn't occur and instead people were placed in these positions. I will leave my commentary on that out of my argument. Regardless, behind closed doors that committee decided which of the 50 or so topics for vote were worthy of discussion for the webcast.

Step 4: On Tuesday, we all got the chance to hammer out our viewpoint for the world to see.

Step 5: We all get to vote.

Step 6: The votes are added up and the rules committee meets in April to decide how to proceed based on the the way the votes are cast.

Step 7: Whatever differences exist between the rules committee and the NACCC are looked over by the board of directors. The last time this all went to a vote, by the board the NACCC members were granted complete autonomy to override whatever decision was made by the masses and got to in effect "line item veto" the result of cumulative agreement in favor of what was best for their particular program. This year, steps have been implemented to prevent this....we think.

I want you as a voter or an allstar and most especially a parent to take a good HARD look at what was actually discussed on the webcast. I want you to ask yourself who those rules benefited and who got to manipulate the order of discussion. There are SOOOO many things that are relevant to everyone in our sport regardless of level that are on that slate, and yet the main ideas discussed ( except for small gym issues ) were almost all about Level 5. Level 5 teams make up a microscopic portion of our industry, yet the words "eliminate youth 5" are listed a grand total of 7 different times because the people on the stage want it to go away. There are at most 200 athletes in the sport that this effects yet we spent a huge part of the day on this topic. The discussion of Super Senior Aged limits is directly relevant to coed boys eligibility....it is nevertheless presented as a safety concern for younger kids. Level 5 issues dominated the discussions because the people in charge of the agenda have their own agenda. With all due respect to seniority and the grassroots effort that these same leaders have made in our sport, and to their credit there are many of them, I ask that you step back from the process and examine the reality.

Before you vote, remember that every time we change a rule and unexpected consequence results. There are many things on this voting slate that could forever change our sport and they are presented in a way that doesn't do justice to their long term effects. The debates are endless on many topics and there are advantages to every angle. The reality is that for the most part, we have it right right now and if we leave it alone ( like a great cheer routine ) it will only clean up and get better and more consistent. If we change things that don't even need to be changed, the long term effects are unknown and the time we spend making the change and dealing with the consequences will be lost forever. You have the power to deny those with an agenda and think of our industry as a whole. We are not an industry that is grassroots anymore. We are only limited by our own expectations. Every coach reading this has the power to reach any goal they set. Don't let rules and limitations hold you or our athletes back. Believe in each other and our kids and let their actions and skills speak for themselves. Is it "Day X" yet? I don't know, but it feels like we are being worked over from the inside and someone had to call it out.

Courtney Smith-Pope

There are several flaws to the above statements, once I double check all my facts I'll be happy to clarify them

 

[Ceacoach]

Last year at NCA CEA Youth Elite and WC Twinkles fought a close battle and CEA just slightly edged out a fantastic team from WC by the slightest of margins. On the scoresheets for WC they were instructed to "add more double fulls". Since that day there has been a concentrated movement to eliminate double fulls from Youth 5 in the name of safety. This may just be coincidental. All I know is our gym lost consecutively to the powerhouse in New Jersey for almost a decade non stop in almost every division and we never asked for skill levels to be restricted, we just worked harder. Leaving soapbox now...

 

[Drkilluzionz]

So here are a few discrepancies I’d like to point out from this original post:

- Rules change forms were submitted at the Doral meeting, all of the USASF Regional meetings this past summer, and by individuals sending them directly into the USASF, including some International teams from outside the US.

- The Final rules slate was discussed over several conference calls in October and November by the NACCC Executive Committee and Board and then a sub committee of NACCC representatives and USASF Rules Committee representatives to get to the final 52 voting propositions. Each and every rules change form was reviewed and given equal consideration before determining which items would move forward to the final voting slate.

- Then out of the 52 voting propositions 12 items had to be selected to be included in the webcast, again this was done by conference call and emails, trying to get as much input as possible and to cover as many items as they could.

- The final voting slate, with the 12 webcast topics highlighted, was posted on the USASF website in early December so everyone had the opportunity to review the voting propositions, prepare their arguments for or against each rule, and decide if they wanted to make the trip to Atlanta to attend the meeting.

- The 12 topics for the webcast included discussion about rules in levels 1, 2, 4, and 4.2, as well as division splits, age level grid, crossovers, and more. Only 3 of the 12 topics were specifically about level 5 skills/divisions. Levels 1-4.2 were discussed earlier in the webcast and if you watched from home then clearly you heard and saw the discussions for yourself.

- The USASF sent out email blasts to members to remind them to register their coaches to vote, the deadlines, the rules process, and the NACCC meeting brochure (which also outlined the rules process).

- The USASF also contacted the author of each voting proposal to see if they would be attending the Atlanta meeting to speak in support of their proposition. Unfortunately, not all of them could attend, including I believe, the person who submitted the proposal to eliminate Youth level 5.

Being as influential in the cheerleading industry as she is I just wish that while the post Courtney made was passionate that it was also accurate so it doesn’t shed a negative or underhanded light on those who are all working together to make the industry better and not just for the benefit of themselves.

A wise woman speaking on this very issue said “We don't all have to agree by any means, but as long as the information going out is accurate, and we respect each other that’s what’s important!”


The members of the NACCC Board because have given their time, energy, and personal funds to create a coaches organization to work effectively with the USASF. Everyone involved really does try to step away from our own personal gyms and look at the big picture and how it affects the industry as a whole. At the end of the day they are also gym owners and have the right to speak on behalf of their gym but so did everyone else in attendance and throughout the country.

 

[Ceacoach]

My note is amended to include the clarifications that the author above copied and pasted from an email I received from Kathy from NACCC that went out to the whole group. Clarifications noted, however I authored the on making tic tocs and full ups to one leg exclusive to level 5 and was not contacted. It is worth stating that the NACCC and the USASF are not the same entity.

 

[Cheeranamo]

I am all for everyone campaigning to "save youth 5" or "restrict youth 5" but I have now seen direct finger pointing from CEA to NJ. Yes, each gym should be able to have their opinion on it but as a whole the "NJ friends" of CEA will not be making this decision, it will be made by many different votes, so it is not fair to point them out and say they are only doing this for "competitive reasons" not for "safety or growing of the division" . By the namesake of CEA saying this you have now opened a can of worms to put gym against gym again, which takes away from the point you are really trying to make and makes it seem more of a elementary playground argument between the two than something that you are really passionate about. Finger pointing will not get you what you want.

 

[CCCBeBad]

How many kids would CEA lose if they got rid of the Youth 5 division and how much money would that be lost?? How many kids make the travel to CEA just for that Youth 5 team, and if they went Youth 4 how many would still make that drive? Also how many doubles does CEA Youth 5 have? Out of the # of doubles they have, how many have gotten hurt trying to get a double?

 

[CCCBeBad]

What other gyms around the country have a Youth 5, Rays, WC, CEA, and who else????

 

[BlueCat]

What other gyms around the country have a Youth 5, Rays, WC, CEA, and who else????

Cheer Athletics

 

[CCCBeBad]

So out of the 4 that I know of, how many have doubles??

What if the rules gave BONUS points to combo to fulls rather then doubles that way kids are building progression in skills rather then full straight to double....

Kinda like they are giving bonus points to coed stunting this year??

 

[twinmom]

I have a question on this subject for all of the coaches who have worked with Youth Level 5 athletes.... Why now after 5 plus years of having the division is it now not safe? Has there been a huge increase in injuries of youth age athletes? Is there a fear that some coaches don't follow the perfection before progression rule? (to me that is a problem with the coach not the division -why punish those coaches/gyms that follow that philosophy and have talented young athletes)

And on the other thread I asked...how many of the previous World Champions were on Twinkle, Youth Elite and Stingray Teal or any other youth 5 team. I think Y5 created some amazing athletes!

Would be so sad to see this division go away!

 

[its501]

I'm not sure if everyone realizes this, but every ground breaking innovation in our industry that applies to rules, progressions, format, and scoring has come from major competition companies. These companies, for the most part, are run by current coaches, former coaches, and/or former cheerleaders. The level rules were originally conceptualized to promote safety and progressive coaching. Throughout the years those original levels have changed to encompass the ever fluctuating landscape of our industry. I will certainly adhere to any changes made in our progressions but if you take into consideration each gyms ability to train athletes of all levels you realize there is a big black hole in the youth level 5 division. I'm sure as our sport edges ever closer to the goal of being accepted for olympic review to be recognized as a potential international event the validity of having level 5 youth teams will be vindicated. I do believe, however, that there should be limitations on what skills young athletes are training. "Burn out" is sad to witness because the emotional investment we as coaches put into these athletes and the emotional and financial burden the parents deal with creates a personal or program wide feeling of distraught because of the lost dreams and the "what could have beens". If limiting the skills thrown by youth teams prevents this type of burn out and prevents injury then I'm all for it. Limiting a coaches/programs ability to use their entire skill set due to the inability of the masses to match what is evidently in the higher echelon programs training arsenal would surely be a disservice to their athletes and more importantly their costumers. In conclusion I fall in the keep level 5 but limit the tumbling skills category.

 

[coachmomx2]

My concern if you restict Yth 5, is where do all those kids go that are almost there??? We have 1st yr L5 kids that are working on those skills but not quite there. Are you going to bump those kids off next yr because they are not there yet??? How sad for them. We pull alot of our kids from Mini 3 and Yth 3 to Yth 5. Thats how we build that division. We could offer a Yth 4, but feel as coaches we can make those kid L5, because we have the coaching staff to teach the proper technique. I myself do not coach level 5 kids. But I do teach 1-4 to become the best L5 cheerleader that they can be. When the L5 coaches get those kids as they move up, they are prepared to handle L5! I take pride in being that 1-4 coach. I spend alot of time, patiences, and energy to teach the "right" way. It's not easy, but I dont tell them to do a skill and say " ok got it?, well good luck with that!" That is wrong!!!! Teaching is the key to learning any skill and if you have a GREAT teacher that wants to teach than that will lead to a GREAT team at any level.

 

[cheermommaRN]

My concern if you restict Yth 5, is where do all those kids go that are almost there??? We have 1st yr L5 kids that are working on those skills but not quite there. Are you going to bump those kids off next yr because they are not there yet??? How sad for them. We pull alot of our kids from Mini 3 and Yth 3 to Yth 5. Thats how we build that division. We could offer a Yth 4, but feel as coaches we can make those kid L5, because we have the coaching staff to teach the proper technique. I myself do not coach level 5 kids. But I do teach 1-4 to become the best L5 cheerleader that they can be. When the L5 coaches get those kids as they move up, they are prepared to handle L5! I take pride in being that 1-4 coach. I spend alot of time, patiences, and energy to teach the "right" way. It's not easy, but I dont tell them to do a skill and say " ok got it?, well good luck with that!" That is wrong!!!! Teaching is the key to learning any skill and if you have a GREAT teacher that wants to teach than that will lead to a GREAT team at any level.

They would go on Youth 5. The kids that are "elite" and have doubles can go on Jr 5. It allows those kids that are "almost" there to work their way safely to doubles and more elite stunts without higher risk for injury.
Mavericks has a Y5 and would benefit greatly from this change this they have either no or very few doubles in their routine.
Unfortunately ceacoach lost me the minute the finger pointing and "conspiracy theories" started. Your basically accusing WC of trying to push through a rule to benefit their gym, completely ignoring the fact that it could benefit other gyms as well. Agreeing with the poster above you just fanned flames on a rivalry that didn't need the help....the boards are going to be so much fun come Worlds....

 

[Mclovin]

At the risk of being absolutely KILLED, I want to say that I personally think it is possible what ceacoach posted is accurate. While I do not believe it needed to be said or posted by someone so high up and respected in our industry, if any one of us "nobody's" said it, people would be shimmying us like crazy! I do not have an iron in this fire, but I am not ignorant to the fact that politics are very rampant in our sport and coaches and industry leaders can and will push for change if they feel like their gym or one of their teams is not keeping up with the standards. It is completely believable and conceivable that the WC coaches want doubles eliminated from Youth 5 because they got beat by CEA. I'm not saying that is 100% fact as I do not know that, but I do believe it is possible.
However, I also believe ceacoach has her own agendas that would benefit HER teams and HER gym as well. So it's across the board that people high up in our industry can and will push for rules to change and/or stay the same to benefit their gym.