All-Star From Courtney Pope - "the View From Backstage At The Naccc..."

[mstealtoyou]

Just wanted to make a clarification that Kville has a Lg Jr 5 All Girl team and a Lg Jr Coed 5 team. Worse case scenario we still have room for a Sm Jr 5 All Girl and a Sm Jr Coed 5, since we don't travel with the other locations that have these teams.

Not saying that's what she'd do, and she certainly doesn't share that information with me nor should she. But, in my mind there are options. I'd just rather keep the division.

 

[newcheerdad]

From reading the voting slate, I'm almost more concerned #29, in which one of the options is eliminating mini 3, youth 4/5 and junior 5. Are those not on the table? I know I can count the number of youth 4 and mini 3 teams I've seen in person and have fingers left over, but if we're worried about progression those options would be far more worrying than just getting rid of youth 5.

 

[mstealtoyou]

I can't find my agenda right now but isn't that about the age grid changing? And has an A and B option with a footnote of what divisions would be done away with if that part passes?

In order for those divisions to be eliminated the age grid would have to change. Didn't hear too many in favors of that, or I didn't hear them speak publically about it.

TG spoke on it briefly, I think but don't remember anyone else.

 

[notimeforthat]

I still would like to know how many of the youth 5 kids are not crossing over to a junior team.... so far on this thread we have heard from one. I just saw a video from CEA save youth 5... I'm pretty sure I've seen most of these kids on junior so they are competing their doubles that they worked so hard to get. Restricting the y5 is not taking anything away from them!!
As a parent of a 10 year old with a double I can totally relate... But you gotta do what you have to to make it work. If that means traveling or changing teams then thats your choice. I truly think that restricting the division would make it more competitive. Ask yourself if your child was on Y5 and you spent thousands of dollars a year to compete against a score sheet time and time again would you want that?? What's the sense of gaining these skills if they only count once in a great while when you do come across someone in your division?

 

[mstealtoyou]

I personally can live with a restricted division, to me that is far more productive then not having it at all.

Doubles that don't crossover to Jr's is 2.

 

[wcdad]

Pardon me sir, but you have no right to comment on another person's parental abilities when you do not even have your facts straight.
#1 Courtney has two girls who cheer at CEA and if you think safety isn't a concern of hers you are sorely mistaken. For you to even insinuate that she would put her bottom line before the safety of her own kids is out of line.

In her post she accused other gym owners of doing the same thing she is. The issue is when A Coach and Owner of a major Gym posts a manifesto like she did she opens herself up to comments and opinions. I am fully aware that Courtney has 2 girls in the program and why I included her as a parent in my post. Someone made a statement that in this issue it is kind of like "the pot calling the kettle black".

#2 Yes we do have an off season...no one is required to attend (and many do not) starting in May. The gym is still opened to those who wish to further their skills for upcoming tryouts and/or still wish to train or have something to do in the summer. So once again your "safety" concerns and/or comments are incorrect and out of line since you did not bother to actually check your facts first.

So are you saying that you do not may a monthly fee during the summer? Does your Gym utilize cross-training during the summer not allowing the child to do repetitive twisting and pounding skills? If that is true than I stand corrected. The issue at hand for safety is that the athletes body needs to rest and stop the same skill. How many times has a child come back from an injury or a lay off stronger? We see it quite often because rehab does not use the same pounding and twisting moves. It utilizes strength and conditioning.

I have had may conversations on this board and with Orthopedic surgeon about utilizing cross training in the cheer world as it is done in every other sport including horse racing. The issue in safety that I see it is this, We as parents and a sport should not allow children to be put into a situation that has long lasting affects on their bodies. A child does not need to compete a double full and the pressure for them to do so should not be there. The effects of the actions will show up when they are older. My daughter has been cheering All-Star for over 14 years, 11 of them as what is termed today as Level 5. The injury that she has is not a result of a one time pass. It is from 14 years of continual pounding and twisting. It was after the injury that as a parent I i researched the injury. I was further taken back when one of the top Orthopedic Surgeons was shocked by the fact that our sport does not have a "off season" or utilize cross training.

#3 Just bc other programs you know have to keep their athletes year round to make money obviously doesn't mean that holds true for everyone.

Once again you are saying that you as a parent do not pay any money during the summer to be on a team that you tried out for in May? You start your monthly payments to the gym in September? That is not what your web site stated when I was complying data for a paper. Each team had a practice schedule posted starting in May. You may say that they are not mandatory on a forum but a young child that has the drive and dedication to be a level 5 athlete is not going to miss a "practice" that is called for by their coach. If you have an off season then great, but why are there practices scheduled during it?



I think it is clear that greater people than you and I, that know far more than we do, are not asking that this division be eliminated. Just that there should be limits what these little children should be able to do in a competition. I as a parent can not fault this way of thinking and agree with it. It has been a long time coming.

 

[Cheeranamo]

umm, I'm pretty positive it wasn't posted on his fb, rather on Courtney's. I do not even believe he was tagged in it iirc

interesting how everyone assumes she's solely calling out WC when she said "our NJ friends"

Umm.. Actually that was posted on his wall in a comment she made on his "save youth 5..." post. And if you read my edited post it I did correct myself to say "New Jersey Friends" instead of WC in that reference. However, she did specifically talk about world cup out in her second posting in this forum.

 

[ctgatormom]

I still would like to know how many of the youth 5 kids are not crossing over to a junior team.... so far on this thread we have heard from one. I just saw a video from CEA save youth 5... I'm pretty sure I've seen most of these kids on junior so they are competing their doubles that they worked so hard to get. Restricting the y5 is not taking anything away from them!!
As a parent of a 10 year old with a double I can totally relate... But you gotta do what you have to to make it work. If that means traveling or changing teams then thats your choice. I truly think that restricting the division would make it more competitive. Ask yourself if your child was on Y5 and you spent thousands of dollars a year to compete against a score sheet time and time again would you want that?? What's the sense of gaining these skills if they only count once in a great while when you do come across someone in your division?

Anyone have a link to the save youth 5 video...

 

[Level5Mom]

I still would like to know how many of the youth 5 kids are not crossing over to a junior team.... so far on this thread we have heard from one. I just saw a video from CEA save youth 5... I'm pretty sure I've seen most of these kids on junior so they are competing their doubles that they worked so hard to get. Restricting the y5 is not taking anything away from them!!
As a parent of a 10 year old with a double I can totally relate... But you gotta do what you have to to make it work. If that means traveling or changing teams then thats your choice. I truly think that restricting the division would make it more competitive. Ask yourself if your child was on Y5 and you spent thousands of dollars a year to compete against a score sheet time and time again would you want that?? What's the sense of gaining these skills if they only count once in a great while when you do come across someone in your division?

I'm not sure if you are only asking about CEA, but Teal has 1 child cross to Juniors, and she has a double. And a double double lol.

 

[notimeforthat]

my point is by restricting Y5 who are we hurting? 2 kids so far... WC has no Y5 crossovers to J5. there would be more at WC than anywhere else!!

 

[brebrid]

I'm not sure if you are only asking about CEA, but Teal has 1 child cross to Juniors, and she has a double. And a double double lol.

OT: Hi there, Is Teal the awesome Youth 4 from last season?

 

[Level5Mom]

OT: Hi there, Is Teal the awesome Youth 4 from last season?

Many of them, yes. Some aged out, and we had a ton of new kids join Rays this year.

 

[tumbleyoda]

my point is by restricting Y5 who are we hurting? 2 kids so far... WC has no Y5 crossovers to J5. there would be more at WC than anywhere else!!

I think the assumption some are making is that if the Y5 division is restricted, more gyms might take a chance in entering the division thereby increasing competition. A side product of that would be safety. I say side product because safety seems to be the by product of the change and not the true reason for it. Otherwise they would restrict double fulls by age regardless the division and have better coaches training/certification for those levels.

My thought is if I owned a gym (which I don't)and didn't have the kids to enter into the division safely (whether restricted or not) and be competitive (not win but be competitive) then I would not do it. To me fielding a team just to say we can or did is not a good enough reason. For other gyms it is a major part of their current business model. Removing Y5 means a major adjustment. But make no mistake they would make it of course and be successful. But it affects more than just the kids on the floor. It is very much a business strategy (which works very well for those gyms that truly know how to work it) as it is letting the kids throw the skills they have work so hard for. JMO.

 

[newcheerdad]

First off, as someone relatively new to cheer I am flummoxed by all of the possible divisions (open, restricted, large, small, large gym, small gym) within levels and age groups. It's hard to keep everything straight!

And I think I've picked up the two major issues in play with this youth 5 debate, or the other proposals out there to dramatically change the age grid in terms of what levels would be permitted.

The first thing I've heard is that there's a safety concern with youth 5 - that it's unsafe and there's a concern that kids are being pushed into competing at a level they're not ready for.

If there is clear evidence that 9 and 10-year-olds are at risk (both short and long-term) by competing at a level, then the level should be eliminated. Period. But then you need to go further. If you truly believe that these kids are too young to compete at this level as a team, then there's no reason to believe they should be allowed to compete on a junior/senior 5 team either. Nowhere in any of these proposals is a rule that would prevent these kids from participating

The second thing is a desire for more competition at the higher-echelon youth programs by eliminating youth 5 by changing some of the rules. I guess the question I'd have is how many more teams would you really adding by these rule changes, and at that point would it be better to simply say that youth 4 is the max for these kids? The question then would be whether it's a good idea to be moving these kids up to junior or senior 5 teams and have the competing with kids not in their age group.

For me, I still think that if there are kids out there that can compete safely and competently at youth 5, then the division should exist as it does today. At least then, you keep similarly aged and skilled kids competing against each other.

 

[nccheerdad]

I still would like to know how many of the youth 5 kids are not crossing over to a junior team.... so far on this thread we have heard from one. I just saw a video from CEA save youth 5... I'm pretty sure I've seen most of these kids on junior so they are competing their doubles that they worked so hard to get. Restricting the y5 is not taking anything away from them!!
As a parent of a 10 year old with a double I can totally relate... But you gotta do what you have to to make it work. If that means traveling or changing teams then thats your choice. I truly think that restricting the division would make it more competitive. Ask yourself if your child was on Y5 and you spent thousands of dollars a year to compete against a score sheet time and time again would you want that?? What's the sense of gaining these skills if they only count once in a great while when you do come across someone in your division?

Tinytumblersmom:

I have asked myself that same question many times, and while no I don't "want" that, I recognize that it comes with the territory of having my child on a team like this. It does not bother me to go to a competition and have no other teams to compete against. When we do manage to attend one with other teams it is a bonus. Outside of major nationals, these kids don't expect to have competition. They are, however, unbelievably driven to get better every time they step on the mat.

My daughter is at CEA on a Mini 3 team and crosses up to Youth 5. She is not a flyer, she is not throwing doubles, and she is certainly not a main part of basing the tick-tocks that these kids are throwing on Y5. She does have some very good tumbling fundamentals that will set the stage to allow her to do these 'elite' tumbling passes. This year? Certainly not. Next Year? Maybe. The year after? Most likely. My point is that she will get there, but IN TIME. Affording her the opportunity to practice at the highest level, week after week, with some of the most elite 11 and 12-year-olds in the world of cheer is what this division is all about.

I go to just about every practice and watch closely what is being done. I can honestly say that not once have I ever felt uncomfortable or seen a situation where a tumbling coach at CEA (or the other two gyms we have been with, for that matter) have compromised her safety. These coaches at this level know their athletes and know what they are capable of. They are extremely patient in allowing the child to work through the skills. Do they encourage them and push them? Absolutely. Do they compromise the child's safety? Not that I have ever seen. I would expect that coaches at other gyms at this calibre would have the same values. If not, they have no business coaching children.

I think so many people get caught up in the pleasure of "beating" someone. If you are a cheer parent of a young athlete, and you have any interest in sticking through it for the long haul, you have to focus on how you can allow your child to continue to get better. If she is fortunate enough to be within proximity to a great cheer program, you do what you can for her to be in a position to make the final cut of a very strong J5 and then an S5 team when she is a teenager and when winning becomes more important to her. I feel that it is my responsibility as a parent to provide her with every opportunity to do just that. By not allowing her to be in an environment over the next two or three years where it doesn't really matter if she maximizes her ability (i.e. limiting Y5), to me, is a complete disservice and absolute backwards way of thinking.

I clearly understand the wear and tear and the rest/cross-training argument and I am an advocate for that, but that is where you need to trust that the coaches use common sense or intervene on your own accord.

Limiting the Y5 division will make it more competitive, only because you will be putting reigns on the difference makers on each team. I have a hard time believing that it will lead to more competition.