High School Full Up Scoring Question

[AndyT_T]

In the previous season we competed a prep level ruby slipper full around to an extended heel stretch because my team wasn't quite ready to do real full ups and we just wanted to keep it clean. This season we want to start working them towards being able to do real full ups, but they're still not quite ready for all of the training wheels to come off yet so we were thinking about cross-leg full ups.

Would a cross leg full and a half up to cupie score better than/similarly to the ruby slipper hands full around to body position that we did last season?
Would a cross leg 1.5 up and a "real" 1.5 up score differently? Would it be worth it to try and hide the crossed legs with positioning of the stunt, or does it not matter if they can tell if it's real or crossed for scoring purposes?
Finally, if we wanted to do a cross leg 1.5 up and then kick a stretch, would it score as a "1.5 up to body position" to get into the super elite category at UCA? How quickly would we have to switch over in order for it to count as an immediate body position?
As an example, if we dipped on 1-2, spun/walked 3-4-5-6, and then kicked the stretch on 7-8 - would it count as immediate? Or would the stretch have to hit on 5 to be immediate?

Edit: Sorry for the 20 questions! I just really don't want to do a ruby slipped 1.5 up to body position or something like that again. I think my kids are ready for the next, more difficult, skill - but I don't want to waste practice time working on harder skills if its going to hurt our score instead of help it. Even if it was a lateral move it would be worth it in my mind to be a step closer to real full ups, but not if it's a step down in score for a step up in difficulty.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

In the previous season we competed a prep level ruby slipper full around to an extended heel stretch because my team wasn't quite ready to do real full ups and we just wanted to keep it clean. This season we want to start working them towards being able to do real full ups, but they're still not quite ready for all of the training wheels to come off yet so we were thinking about cross-leg full ups.

Would a cross leg full and a half up to cupie score better than/similarly to the ruby slipper hands full around to body position that we did last season?
Would a cross leg 1.5 up and a "real" 1.5 up score differently? Would it be worth it to try and hide the crossed legs with positioning of the stunt, or does it not matter if they can tell if it's real or crossed for scoring purposes?
Finally, if we wanted to do a cross leg 1.5 up and then kick a stretch, would it score as a "1.5 up to body position" to get into the super elite category at UCA? How quickly would we have to switch over in order for it to count as an immediate body position?
As an example, if we dipped on 1-2, spun/walked 3-4-5-6, and then kicked the stretch on 7-8 - would it count as immediate? Or would the stretch have to hit on 5 to be immediate?

Edit: Sorry for the 20 questions! I just really don't want to do a ruby slipped 1.5 up to body position or something like that again. I think my kids are ready for the next, more difficult, skill - but I don't want to waste practice time working on harder skills if its going to hurt our score instead of help it. Even if it was a lateral move it would be worth it in my mind to be a step closer to real full ups, but not if it's a step down in score for a step up in difficulty.

With UCA’s comparative judging, your “score” would be directly dependent upon the teams against whom you were competing.

As far as where those skills would fall in rank with each other and on the progression hierarchy...I’ll take a stab at it

(FYI: worked all night, practiced all morning, slept 4 hours and just woke up)

When we competed ruby slipper grip 3 years ago, I was told it was a “cross-leg full up variation.” So the full up from that position would be equal to the cross leg full up. I believe those are “intermediate.”

With a ruby-slipper 1 1/2, I think you would probably be inching into traditional full up territory so think maybe “advanced.” I am understanding you to be saying that you would do this skill basically like a ruby slipper full up but have the bases keep walking around the final 1/2 turn. We start our 1 1/2 ups with a ruby slipper grip, but it’s released and recaught by the secondary. That would be a 1 1/2 up and get into elite category.

I can speak from experience and say, it doesn’t matter which way you turn the skills, the judges can see its cross-leg or ruby slipper.

 

[dhubbz]

I’d agree, anything that is a cross-legged style grip would be put in that category. Unless it is released, with one person maintaining contact or fully released, then it is cross-legged.

So basically, I’d take whatever it is traditional style and just go one grid lower, since that’s how it starts. I hope that made sense.

If I knew how to post photos, I’d show you what I mean :/

 

[AScheer]

https://varsity.com/uploads/editor/files/PDFS/UCA/18/Competitions/17-18_Stunt_Progressions.pdf

I completely understand what you're saying and I think all coaches that develop athletes from the ground up have this same internal debate at some point. I think this largely depends on the competition company you're competing with AND the division. Middle school, Rec, Club, JV and some of the other divisions can get away with more cross leg grips than the major HS divisions, because that is what a majority of the division is doing. While the grid doesn't change, the competition level does. I'm assuming your talking UCA, so...

The way I interpret the grid...

Cross leg full up variations (regardless of where they go to or if they end in single leg) will score in the intermediate range. I've not personally seen a version of a cross leg full up that can end in a true single leg body position. In your scenario of pulling a stretch, the stunt hits and then pulls. That isn't immediate.

A true ruby slipper (which is a true released full up skill) is a 1.5 up or double up and would start in the elite range and can go super elite based on body position.

I think if you can start introducing true full up grips to them now, it pays off later. The only way to get them is to do them. But I get that it can be discouraging to feel like you're pushing harder skills for no pay off score wise. We started by introducing them in areas where it was less important. Started with true full around show in gos for flash in the pyramid that would start & end in squish and then retake up. We put full ups to prep, etc. in the cheer, where difficulty doesn't play as big of a role as your main stunt sequence.

Like it was said earlier, scoring is comparative, so it all depends on the teams, the panel and the day. However, even if you only get a true full up to a prep, it should score the same as a cross leg/fake ruby slipper to anything. They're both intermediate skills. Again, this is assuming UCA.