All-Star Getting Caught...

[AlwaysLearning]

I like the idea of noting DQ on final results. They do it in swimming & diving which is a little different because that is usually because of a wrong kick, etc. DQ'ing a team is a good way for EP's to show their customers they are committed to providing a fair competition and cheating won't be tolerated.

I don't understand why so many organizations (EP's & gyms) think sweeping problems under the rug is the best answer. I wish they would wake up & realize customers appreciate an org that will uphold rules to protect their brand and their other customers.

I also think every cheating incident should have to be reported to USASF & if the EP fails to report an incident or handle it properly they should risk their USASF sanctioned credentials.

 

[THEJOEL]

Background?


**Of course it's true, I saw it on The Fierce Boards**

Yea @TheVipersMom can you elaborate please?

 

[catlady]

I'm guessing as these situations arise, they're working out the legalities. It's one thing to quietly strip a team of its title, banners and jackets but, it's another thing to publically announce cheating or take away money when third parties are involved. I don't think it's about sweeping it under the rug, as much as, who's responsible if there's a law suit.

When money or bids are being awarded, IMO a state issued ID should be a requirement. Stick it in a lanyard or upload it onto the USASF data base, then check their picture and birthdate as they enter warm ups.

 

[HPEmom]

Well, it continues. I just saw a post on Facebook of a mom commenting about the cost of the end of season competitions. She states "I feel you, my daughter is going to Summit with 3 teams."

I couldn't figure out the gym as I am not friends with the mom.

Eta: others asked and she replied that her daughter was going to the D2 Summit where she can be on 3 teams.

 

[Cheer Dad]

I'm guessing as these situations arise, they're working out the legalities. It's one thing to quietly strip a team of its title, banners and jackets but, it's another thing to publically announce cheating or take away money when third parties are involved. I don't think it's about sweeping it under the rug, as much as, who's responsible if there's a law suit.

When money or bids are being awarded, IMO a state issued ID should be a requirement. Stick it in a lanyard or upload it onto the USASF data base, then check their picture and birthdate as they enter warm ups.

Lawsuit? They were caught cheating and admitted it. How can they sue for anything?


**Of course it's true, I saw it on The Fierce Boards**

 

[cheernerd5678]

This is complete BS. If it is a USASF affiliated event - a bid event and/or it is one of the biggest EPs in the business, and USASF makes the rules and the gym is a USASF member - it should not be up to the EP to decide how punishment is handed out. This is a USASF responsibility. Between this incident and the gym who broke the rules and earned a paid bid and received no consequences, I'm back to having zero confidence in this "governing body". I really thought they were going in the right direction but I guess I was wrong.

THIS. What exactly is the point of the USASF making rules if they don't also have a protocol for when someone breaks them? A governing body that makes the rules but leaves it to the competition to enforce them? That makes no sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[standSTILL]

It happened...it was confirmed. Offending teams were taken from first place to last. Team that won a bid was stripped, and it was handed to another team in their organization. This happened at a Cheersport 1 day.

As the mom of a J3 athlete this just makes me nervous!

 

[catlady]

Lawsuit? They were caught cheating and admitted it. How can they sue for anything? **Of course it's true, I saw it on The Fierce Boards**

Hypothetically, what about the parent that booked their 4 non-refundable tickets as soon as the bid was announced and had no idea any cheating had occurred? Who reimburses her? The coach, who decided to cheat and is now gone? The gym who is ultimately responsible for their staff? The EP who didn't check birthdates before they went out on the floor? Suzie's mom that lied and said Suzie was 10? Or, the parent just loses the money?

Hypothetically, the House of Mouse has taken the deposit for 32 athletes credentials and hotels. Does the contract say they can get that deposit back? Or, did the EP lose that money and that bid? Is the coach responsible? Gym owner? Suzie's mom? Or, EP?

Hypothetically, the coach makes the decision to cheat, the owner isn't aware but, when they find out fires the coach. Does the owner deserve to have his gym publically announced as cheaters? Or, was it handled appropriately?

This isn't about individual athletes who are disqualified for their own legalities. These are often individual decisions that impact multiple people, business integrity and financial transactions. Most certainly it needs to be addressed and resolved but, I do think it will take some time for them to sort out all the legal "what ifs".

 

[Beans100]

Hypothetically, what about the parent that booked their 4 non-refundable tickets as soon as the bid was announced and had no idea any cheating had occurred? Who reimburses her? The coach, who decided to cheat and is now gone? The gym who is ultimately responsible for their staff? The EP who didn't check birthdates before they went out on the floor? Suzie's mom that lied and said Suzie was 10? Or, the parent just loses the money?

Hypothetically, the House of Mouse has taken the deposit for 32 athletes credentials and hotels. Does the contract say they can get that deposit back? Or, did the EP lose that money and that bid? Is the coach responsible? Gym owner? Suzie's mom? Or, EP?

Hypothetically, the coach makes the decision to cheat, the owner isn't aware but, when they find out fires the coach. Does the owner deserve to have his gym publically announced as cheaters? Or, was it handled appropriately?

This isn't about individual athletes who are disqualified for their own legalities. These are often individual decisions that impact multiple people, business integrity and financial transactions. Most certainly it needs to be addressed and resolved but, I do think it will take some time for them to sort out all the legal "what ifs".

A big thing I learned in cheer was "you win together, you lose together." I hold that same view for cheaters. Everyone is either punished or has some sort of consequence.

To answer your questions-
1. The parent who booked their 4 non-refundable tickets is an idiot. Put some travelers insurance on those! What if the kid was injured, fell ill, or was kicked off the team? But, if I was the parent, I would talking to the gym after trying to resolve the issue with the airline and the resort. The gym screwed up, the gym owes people some money. But, in the end, the parent probably won't be reimbursed which will hopefully encourage them to leave the gym and let the ship sink.

2. What contract? Aren't hotel rooms usually able to be cancelled for a full refund? If that's the case, the money would go back to the EP and the cheating gym would receive nothing. If the hotel does not refund, than either the money is lost, or the EP can choose to take things up legally with the cheating gym.

3. It's great that the owner fired the coach, but I still think it's important to have the gym publicly announced. In my opinion, owners should know what is going on with their teams. Even multi-location gyms have a head/director who should be aware of all placements that occur in their gym. If not, it's irresponsible of the owner.

It's true that cheating is usually due to a few stupid decisions of individuals. But, their choices impact a lot of people when it comes to teams, trophies and bids.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Hypothetically, what about the parent that booked their 4 non-refundable tickets as soon as the bid was announced and had no idea any cheating had occurred? Who reimburses her? The coach, who decided to cheat and is now gone? The gym who is ultimately responsible for their staff? The EP who didn't check birthdates before they went out on the floor? Suzie's mom that lied and said Suzie was 10? Or, the parent just loses the money?

Hypothetically, the House of Mouse has taken the deposit for 32 athletes credentials and hotels. Does the contract say they can get that deposit back? Or, did the EP lose that money and that bid? Is the coach responsible? Gym owner? Suzie's mom? Or, EP?

Hypothetically, the coach makes the decision to cheat, the owner isn't aware but, when they find out fires the coach. Does the owner deserve to have his gym publically announced as cheaters? Or, was it handled appropriately?

This isn't about individual athletes who are disqualified for their own legalities. These are often individual decisions that impact multiple people, business integrity and financial transactions. Most certainly it needs to be addressed and resolved but, I do think it will take some time for them to sort out all the legal "what ifs".

If you have a gym that intentionally puts 15-18 year olds on a junior team while lying about who they are its all on them. This is not a case of the EP saying we decided to revoke your bid because we feel like it.


Yes, I wish the USASF kept a record of gyms that have been caught cheating and why. That info can help people looking for new gyms and it could also be taken in to account when they renew their USASF membership.


**Of course it's true, I saw it on The Fierce Boards**

 

[SL&AM]

@catlady From a purely hypothetical perspective; if a gym owner only goes to USASF sanctioned events and is certified to coach through USASF, does USASF have any liability if the owner is found to be using their business illegally and in a manner that warrants jail time?

 

[AngelsMum24]

Hypothetically, what about the parent that booked their 4 non-refundable tickets as soon as the bid was announced and had no idea any cheating had occurred? Who reimburses her? The coach, who decided to cheat and is now gone? The gym who is ultimately responsible for their staff? The EP who didn't check birthdates before they went out on the floor? Suzie's mom that lied and said Suzie was 10? Or, the parent just loses the money?

Hypothetically, the House of Mouse has taken the deposit for 32 athletes credentials and hotels. Does the contract say they can get that deposit back? Or, did the EP lose that money and that bid? Is the coach responsible? Gym owner? Suzie's mom? Or, EP?

Hypothetically, the coach makes the decision to cheat, the owner isn't aware but, when they find out fires the coach. Does the owner deserve to have his gym publically announced as cheaters? Or, was it handled appropriately?

This isn't about individual athletes who are disqualified for their own legalities. These are often individual decisions that impact multiple people, business integrity and financial transactions. Most certainly it needs to be addressed and resolved but, I do think it will take some time for them to sort out all the legal "what ifs".

I will say as an owner, I am there for team placements. I receive the birth certificates and I do the rosters. If the owner wasn't aware then they need to be more involved.

 

[catlady]

@Beans100 @Cheer Dad @SL&AM @AngelsMum24 we all want the kids to have a fair shot on the competition floor. With that said, I tend to put on the corporate hat to try to figure out why they won't do something the way we all feel it should be done. Two things: It's not cost effective or there is legal risk. They aren't going to post cheaters because, that comes with legal risk and they aren't going to cherry pick by circumstance. I get the fact people don't like it when I state the corporate view but, I only state what is obvious to me from working in that world for many years. FYI, that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

The gym is ultimately responsible for the actions of its employees. They train coaches and set expectations. Not every coach they hire may live up to those expectations, but how the gym handles a coach that violates their rules says a lot about the type of business the gym runs.

I don't believe NO ONE other than the coach knew the athlete was underage. Kids talk. They know how old everyone is. Not all parents are clueless about cheer rules. The office staff or owner or someone handles birth certificates and usasf registration. Someone else knew and looked the other way.

Ignorance is not an excuse. A gym owner takes a chance when they put someone else in charge of paperwork, creating teams, coaching, etc, but it is THEIR name on the door at the end of the day. They should be protecting it as hard as they can.

 

[Beans100]

@Beans100 @Cheer Dad @SL&AM @AngelsMum24 we all want the kids to have a fair shot on the competition floor. With that said, I tend to put on the corporate hat to try to figure out why they won't do something the way we all feel it should be done. Two things: It's not cost effective or there is legal risk. They aren't going to post cheaters because, that comes with legal risk and they aren't going to cherry pick by circumstance. I get the fact people don't like it when I state the corporate view but, I only state what is obvious to me from working in that world for many years. FYI, that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it.

Very true. I understand cutting corners in order to save money or prevent hassle. (working in the food industry has taught me that business can be dirty) But, at the end of the day, if the product that is presented is not high enough quality that people can look past all the shortcuts, then people will find something else or will demand something else.