All-Star Gym Owners Refusing To Sign Release... Appeal Process?..

[12stepCheermom]

I see a set up... lol


From experience this process is not as easy as everyone thinks... and would need to be vetted from both sides. I can guarantee that as much as this ruling has been picked apart for the past 2 years by a very small amount of people, as it has affected a very few people, the masses, the majority that agree with the ruling are going insist on a thorough vetting of any proposal.



Not to sound like a nerd, "but the needs of the many far outweigh the needs of a few"...

I feel the sudden need to watch Star Trek. Aaaaahhhhhh, Chris Pine. #yesplease


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[Deleted member 15]

For all the appeals people, Andre is trying to make the point that things aren't always as easy as you like to make them. And I think he's doing a wonderful job of it.

I've said before that its not a perfect rule but it has 100% accomplished what it was designed to do.

Making an appeals adjustment is hard and this illustrates it.


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That's part of it. Another part is I don't think there are many people that will put real effort into getting a policy changed. They'll be vocal in complaining about it, but do nothing to change it.

Nonetheless, if a well thought out and written proposal is created and sent to me I will get it in Jim's hands.

 

[Mom Jeans]

Do you think that should be considered enough? Or do you think if that was written in the proposal to create an appeals process and taken to the board of directors they would think it's enough?

I'm also expecting people to add more reasons someone that should be considered in an appeal and those would need some sort of evidence.



The plan is for you guys to write a proposal. If it makes sense, regardless of if I agree with it, I'll get in in Jim's hands. From there I'm sure he'll get it to whoever could implement if it meets his requirements.

I'm just wondering if there is something that I'm not thinking of. Open/closed is pretty black and white. just as an example . Our gym once turned in another gym for using an underage athlete. The problem was that the only evidence the EP and USASF would accept was a birth certificate. The gym and parent had scanned someone else's birth cert and put the athletes name on it. Yes, the real birth cert surfaced , which proved it

But if your gym is closed, it's closed right? Am I missing something? I don't want to waste anyone's time, if I'm totally on the wrong page. I also hope that this is not a huge issue and usually everything is working out the way it should

 

[Cheer Dad]

I'm just wondering if there is something that I'm not thinking of. Open/closed is pretty black and white. just as an example . Our gym once turned in another gym for using an underage athlete. The problem was that the only evidence the EP and USASF would accept was a birth certificate. The gym and parent had scanned someone else's birth cert and put the athletes name on it. Yes, the real birth cert surfaced , which proved it

But if your gym is closed, it's closed right? Am I missing something? I don't want to waste anyone's time, if I'm totally on the wrong page. I also hope that this is not a huge issue and usually everything is working out the way it should

as wcdad pointed out on my thought to this there is still the possibility of the cheerleader having a financial obligation to the gym which would need to be settled

 

[Mom Jeans]

as wcdad pointed out on my thought to this there is still the possibility of the cheerleader having a financial obligation to the gym which would need to be settled

I knew I was forgetting something,thank you

 

[Cheer Dad]

That's part of it. Another part is I don't think there are many people that will put real effort into getting a policy changed. They'll be vocal in complaining about it, but do nothing to change it.

Nonetheless, if a well thought out and written proposal is created and sent to me I will get it in Jim's hands.

Out of curiosity, has there ever been the start to an appeals process written?

 

[Deleted member 15]

I'm just wondering if there is something that I'm not thinking of. Open/closed is pretty black and white. just as an example . Our gym once turned in another gym for using an underage athlete. The problem was that the only evidence the EP and USASF would accept was a birth certificate. The gym and parent had scanned someone else's birth cert and put the athletes name on it. Yes, the real birth cert surfaced , which proved it

But if your gym is closed, it's closed right? Am I missing something? I don't want to waste anyone's time, if I'm totally on the wrong page. I also hope that this is not a huge issue and usually everything is working out the way it should

Is there a way to prove it's closed? If I was on the appeals board I wouldn't accept someone's word because people lie, or a text to email because I can make those look like they came from anyone. With the burden of proof likely being on the athlete asking for the appeal, what can they provide that the appeals board should accept as evidence the gym has closed so the exception can be granted?

 

[Deleted member 15]

Out of curiosity, has there ever been the start to an appeals process written?

Not that I've seen. The USASF votes I've been involved with general start at a more conceptual level, do we need an appeals process, and if that vote was no we'd move on. The discussion may have listed some reasons for an appeal process, but I doubt those were written down in anything more than the meeting minutes once there was a vote of no.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Not that I've seen. The USASF votes I've been involved with general start at a more conceptual level, do we need an appeals process, and if that vote was no we'd move on. The discussion may have listed some reasons for an appeal process, but I doubt those were written down in anything more than the meeting minutes once there was a vote of no.

Thanks. Maybe the approach of an appeals process is pointless until some guidelines are set under which a gym cannot deny a release. Examples might be that all financial obligations are met, L5 team no longer available, athlete removed from team for discipline, etc...

Honestly, the appeals process could be as simple as having both sides present evidence for their case to a review board (people to be determined) whom make a decision based on what they get and after some Q&A., but until some guidelines for a release are set there is nothing to base an appeal on. Make sense?

 

[CharlotteASMom]

When is a gym considered closed?

The obvious is the doors close and the gym owners are out of business. What about Gym A closes but reopens as Gym B in the same location? What if Gym A closes but reopens as Gym B in a new location? What if Gym A and Gym B merge?

What does closed mean for this process and then once you've established that then decide what is considered proof.

 

[KDCheerMom]

anyway people could get a format from another sport and use that as a starting point? Seems like we have several people who have exposure to soccer and hockey; and I am sure others.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Thanks. Maybe the approach of an appeals process is pointless until some guidelines are set under which a gym cannot deny a release. Examples might be that all financial obligations are met, L5 team no longer available, athlete removed from team for discipline, etc...

Start writing...

 

[CharlotteASMom]

anyway people could get a format from another sport and use that as a starting point? Seems like we have several people who have exposure to soccer and hockey; and I am sure others.

I will look in the morning if someone hasn't posted before then.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Start writing...

the gears are turning, probably not for long, but I think anything any of us come up with will only touch the tip of the iceberg which is why this has not been done yet. Very daunting task for anyone.

I think the bottom line for just about everyone though is preventing both the athlete and gym owner from abusing the other.

Thanks for your input.

 

[LabbyGirlMOM]

I have been trying to help come up with some type of appeals process but I cannot think of anything I even took a look at other sports in my area and I really do not think that they would work with this type of sport given how different cheer is.