All-Star How Would This Score For Sync Tumbling?

[Deleted member 15]

ok i see all of your points and i appreciate the clarification. Its my opinion that cheer should work toward a system where it lets the elite tumblers flourish rather than suppress them. There has got to be a way, gymnastics has found it, hopefully cheer will too.

I completely agree. I just don't know how to do that in a safe enough way. As someone that probably watched over 3000 routines from the judges stand last season I would love to see more things that really stand out (and never hear Fireworks or Only Girl in the World ever again).

 

[AndyT_T]

As much as I'd love to see the cheer world step out of it's comfort zone, there just aren't enough coaches that could teach them correctly. Could you imagine Suzies mom's all-stars trying to teach some of those skills? Heck there are SOOOOO many that shouldn't even be teaching bhs. Double flipping skills used to be legal, then a faceplant by a UH cheerleader ended that. Cheersport I think was the last to allow double flipping skills. Just too dangerous.

Was that the straw that broke the camels back? I remember seeing double backs at comps when I was little, But I never knew that UH had a dude bust a double back.....
Wait wait wait, that was pre spring floor wasnt it? Double back on dead matt... SKETCH :confused:

 

[Mightymouse34]

I completely agree. I just don't know how to do that in a safe enough way. As someone that probably watched over 3000 routines from the judges stand last season I would love to see more things that really stand out (and never hear Fireworks or Only Girl in the World ever again).

Well I know this might sound crazy but how come we don't install a level system where you have to earn your way to the elite levels like gymnastics. To reach levels 8, 9 and 10 you have to qualify through the lower levels demonstrating that you can execute the skill necessary safely to be allowed to move up to higher levels where more dangerous skills may be thrown. But gymnast who are not ready or do not have the proper coaching simply do not reach that level. If we did that i believe that level 5 or what ever level the elite becomes can be more prestigious and something earned. Not like the many of the all-star teams we see today competing level 5 with team layouts and a few miscellaneous fulls here or there with maybe one double. This is all hypothetical of course I am just wondering if this has ever been mentioned or talked about, or if this is even a possible solution.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Well I know this might sound crazy but how come we don't install a level system where you have to earn your way to the elite levels like gymnastics. To reach levels 8, 9 and 10 you have to qualify through the lower levels demonstrating that you can execute the skill necessary safely to be allowed to move up to higher levels where more dangerous skills may be thrown. But gymnast who are not ready or do not have the proper coaching simply do not reach that level. If we did that i believe that level 5 or what ever level the elite becomes can be more prestigious and something earned. Not like the many of the all-star teams we see today competing level 5 with team layouts and a few miscellaneous fulls here or there with maybe one double. This is all hypothetical of course I am just wondering if this has ever been mentioned or talked about, or if this is even a possible solution.

It's a lot easier to implement on an individual basis that it is on a team basis. Would everyone on the team need to be Level X for that team to compete Level X? Would athletes need to be Level X in one or all categories (tumbling, tosses, stunts) to compete at that Level? Who would certify an athletes level? If it's not done by an independent party we aren't in a much better place than we are now. Who pays for an independent party to certify athletes if that's the route we go?

 

[yojaehs]

Was that the straw that broke the camels back? I remember seeing double backs at comps when I was little, But I never knew that UH had a dude bust a double back.....
Wait wait wait, that was pre spring floor wasnt it? Double back on dead matt... SKETCH :confused:

Yep flat mat.

 

[Mightymouse34]

It's a lot easier to implement on an individual basis that it is on a team basis. Would everyone on the team need to be Level X for that team to compete Level X? Would athletes need to be Level X in one or all categories (tumbling, tosses, stunts) to compete at that Level? Who would certify an athletes level? If it's not done by an independent party we aren't in a much better place than we are now. Who pays for an independent party to certify athletes if that's the route we go?

once again I see and agree with your points. But I would think we could go along the same lines as gymnastics still, where qualifying and certification to the upper levels comes through competition with an official event judged by certified judges such as a super national in our case. And because Cheer is a team sport it wouldn't be based on individuals, I think in our case it would come down to a team hitting a routine at its level demonstrating that a MAJORITY of the team can execute the skills at that level safely. For example if a small senior team competed 12-15 fulls standing and running and all were executed safely in a routine and scored high enough in a overall score, then that team could move up to the level where doubles are allowed and so on and so forth. That is if we used a system similar to gymnastics. Once again I know this is all hypothetical and i apologize if I'm getting annoying with this lol.

 

[Deleted member 15]

once again I see and agree with your points. But I would think we could go along the same lines as gymnastics still, where qualifying and certification to the upper levels comes through competition with an official event judged by certified judges such as a super national in our case. And because Cheer is a team sport it wouldn't be based on individuals, I think in our case it would come down to a team hitting a routine at its level demonstrating that a MAJORITY of the team can execute the skills at that level safely. For example if a small senior team competed 12-15 fulls standing and running and all were executed safely in a routine and scored high enough in a overall score, then that team could move up to the level where doubles are allowed and so on and so forth. That is if we used a system similar to gymnastics. Once again I know this is all hypothetical and i apologize if I'm getting annoying with this lol.

I'm enjoying the conversation. I like it when people are trying to improve the industry.

When a new season begins would a team keep the level they had the season before, have to start over, or something in between?

At this point there isn't a USASF panel judges certification program. That probably won't come until there is a Universal Score Sheet, which won't come until Varsity, Jammy, and the IEP agree, which probably won't happen until Jammy believes the USASF is independent of Varsity, which may take a while for a variety of reasons.

 

[Mightymouse34]

I'm enjoying the conversation. I like it when people are trying to improve the industry.

When a new season begins would a team keep the level they had the season before, have to start over, or something in between?

At this point there isn't a USASF panel judges certification program. That probably won't come until there is a Universal Score Sheet, which won't come until Varsity, Jammy, and the IEP agree, which probably won't happen until Jammy believes the USASF is independent of Varsity, which may take a while for a variety of reasons.

Ahhh...see i totally forgot about that problem. That would really make it impossible then. But just for the sake of the your question, I believe it would be something in between. For instance if a team successfully qualified for worlds and made it to finals in their respectful division I would think they could have the team start at one level lower than they finished. That team would then compete at its first comp of the season at that level and hopefully score high enough to go back to the elite level. So if the team is as good as the year prior then they would only compete one comp at the lower level (which would be the same as going to an exhibition comp where you have no competition, which is what a lot of gyms do already for their first comp). But if your team does not make finals then I think it'd be OK to have them start them at the mid level. It stinks but that's the real life of sports. Some years your going to have a better team than in past, and some you may not. But they key thing to me is that each year you have to earn that Elite status, in my opinion it makes it so much more competitive and valued.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Ahhh...see i totally forgot about that problem. That would really make it impossible then. But just for the sake of the your question, I believe it would be something in between. For instance if a team successfully qualified for worlds and made it to finals in their respectful division I would think they could have the team start at one level lower than they finished. That team would then compete at its first comp of the season at that level and hopefully score high enough to go back to the elite level. So if the team is as good as the year prior then they would only compete one comp at the lower level (which would be the same as going to an exhibition comp where you have no competition, which is what a lot of gyms do already for their first comp). But if your team does not make finals then I think it'd be OK to have them start them at the mid level. It stinks but that's the real life of sports. Some years your going to have a better team than in past, and some you may not. But they key thing to me is that each year you have to earn that Elite status, in my opinion it makes it so much more competitive and valued.

What do you do with Panthers, a team that was very successful in one division that switched to another?
How about Levels 3-4? (I assume L1-2 start back at L1)

 

[JulieP]

At this point there isn't a USASF panel judges certification program. That probably won't come until there is a Universal Score Sheet, which won't come until Varsity, Jammy, and the IEP agree, which probably won't happen until Jammy believes the USASF is independent of Varsity, which may take a while for a variety of reasons.

I agree on the universal scoresheet and judging- it seems like we all want it but somehow can't make it happen. Is Jammy really that unreasonable? He looks agreeable enough... haha.

 

[Mightymouse34]

What do you do with Panthers, a team that was very successful in one division that switched to another?
How about Levels 3-4? (I assume L1-2 start back at L1)

Well I think if they want to switch division then yes, they would have to deal with starting over. But like in gymnastics there is barriers. In gymnastics you don't have to start at level 1, you can choose to start at level 5 at the Sr age. So if we applied it to cheer i think it could stay close to the same, even at the Jr levels. Except they would start at level 3 instead of Sr team starting at 4, but it would still be left up to coaches to have teams at any level, i don't think it would be cut and dry "if your a Sr team you HAVE to start at this level", if you truly had a Sr level 3 team then you could compete at that level. But i think it'd be hard to apply in our current level system.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I agree on the universal scoresheet and judging- it seems like we all want it but somehow can't make it happen. Is Jammy really that unreasonable? He looks agreeable enough... haha.

How could you not love a face like that?

Rumor is Jammy has some concerns about the independence of the USASF. If so, they are making a reasonable decision to not give the USASF more power. In fact, if their rumored concerns are valid they are probably doing the industry a favor in the long run by not giving the USASF more power.