All-Star I Want You To Tear Apart This Idea And Find Every Hole You Can Find

[King]

I think this should be used as a guideline and not so literal...judges still need to do their job and make sure skills are performed, it would just makes things easier for them.

The live judges would just take care of execution and performance.

The difficulty judge would take care of what was attempted.

 

[MomNBlue&Green]

How would you know if it was or wasn't?

Of course I cant say for sure that it wasn't since we don't get to see the scoresheets however it is almost obvious by the final score that there wasn't a deduction for this. The only reason this stood out to me so much was because of all of the comments about how amazingly clean the team was when I was sitting on the side (front row) and from my view there were more than a few tumbling "issues" so to speak. In my own personal opinion if 1/2 of your doubles are under-rotated then it was not a "clean" routine and there should be a deduction on the execution score for every single double that did not rotate completely around. The problem with that is that it is not humanly possible to catch every one when you have 6 or 7 people tumbling at the same time. On the same note isn't an under-rotated double the same as an over-rotated full?

Ok back to the topic at hand...

 

[Mclovin]

Of course I cant say for sure that it wasn't since we don't get to see the scoresheets however it is almost obvious by the final score that there wasn't a deduction for this. The only reason this stood out to me so much was because of all of the comments about how amazingly clean the team was when I was sitting on the side (front row) and from my view there were more than a few tumbling "issues" so to speak. In my own personal opinion if 1/2 of your doubles are under-rotated then it was not a "clean" routine and there should be a deduction on the execution score for every single double that did not rotate completely around. The problem with that is that it is not humanly possible to catch every one when you have 6 or 7 people tumbling at the same time. On the same note isn't an under-rotated double the same as an over-rotated full?

Ok back to the topic at hand...

I don't consider an incomplete double an overrotated full at all. IMO, they are very dangerous. I have heard of so many athletes breaking legs and blowing ACL's because of this. I, too, agree that each and every incomplete double should be a deduction from the execution score (which cannot possibly be happening right now unless it's by hundreths of a point). I bent legged full/double may be ugly to look at but at least it's safe. I think the deduction for incomplete doubles should be so high that coaches refuse to put them on the floor...Can you tell this is a pet peeve of mine?? lol

 

[MomNBlue&Green]

I don't consider an incomplete double an overrotated full at all. IMO, they are very dangerous. I have heard of so many athletes breaking legs and blowing ACL's because of this. I, too, agree that each and every incomplete double should be a deduction from the execution score (which cannot possibly be happening right now unless it's by hundreths of a point). I bent legged full/double may be ugly to look at but at least it's safe. I think the deduction for incomplete doubles should be so high that coaches refuse to put them on the floor...Can you tell this is a pet peeve of mine?? lol

They are a huge pet peeve of mine as well and they scare me to death! I hate to see a blown out knee because of a skill being put on a mat before it is ready.

 

[Level5Mom]

I'm still not sure I'm buying into the idea of deducting for an inaccurate script. Do they deduct in gymnastics for an incorrect start value or do they just adjust it? I know of many circumstances where athletes adjust on the spot. Maybe they tweaked an ankle in standing tumbling so they water down running. It happens all the time. If a full up falls, they recover but instead of switching up they go straight up. I think the difficulty judge should count the skills and adjust the difficulty value, but no deduction should be imposed. If faking a script is that big of a concern, have 2 difficulty judges and split the routine in half so they can take their time and count it correctly.

 

[5-6-7-8]

I'm still not sure I'm buying into the idea of deducting for an inaccurate script. Do they deduct in gymnastics for an incorrect start value or do they just adjust it? I know of many circumstances where athletes adjust on the spot. Maybe they tweaked an ankle in standing tumbling so they water down running. It happens all the time. If a full up falls, they recover but instead of switching up they go straight up. I think the difficulty judge should count the skills and adjust the difficulty value, but no deduction should be imposed. If faking a script is that big of a concern, have 2 difficulty judges and split the routine in half so they can take their time and count it correctly.

I agree. I like that there is a starting point for the video review, but I think the hit taken in the difficulty score should be sufficient. It just seems like a large amount of extra work to incorporate changes for little value. I wouldn't want to encourage throwing a skill just because it was on the script if there is a good reason not to do it.

 

[Level5Mom]

I agree. I like that there is a starting point for the video review, but I think the hit taken in the difficulty score should be sufficient. It just seems like a large amount of extra work to incorporate changes for little value. I wouldn't want to encourage throwing a skill just because it was on the script if there is a good reason not to do it.

Right. Also, adjustments on the floor are made quite often, especially in the event of skill deductions. For example, if a pyramid has 2 flips that occur back to back by the same flyer, and the first flip goes wrong causing them to miss the second flip, the deduction alone for the first flip should be all that is incurred along with the execution and decrease in difficulty score from the second missed flip. There should not be an EXTRA deduction because they didn't do all the flips they said they would do on their script.

 

[AllstarObsession]

Right. Also, adjustments on the floor are made quite often, especially in the event of skill deductions. For example, if a pyramid has 2 flips that occur back to back by the same flyer, and the first flip goes wrong causing them to miss the second flip, the deduction alone for the first flip should be all that is incurred along with the execution and decrease in difficulty score from the second missed flip. There should not be an EXTRA deduction because they didn't do all the flips they said they would do on their script.

I agree, some flexibility for obvious performance errors.

 

[King]

Right. Also, adjustments on the floor are made quite often, especially in the event of skill deductions. For example, if a pyramid has 2 flips that occur back to back by the same flyer, and the first flip goes wrong causing them to miss the second flip, the deduction alone for the first flip should be all that is incurred along with the execution and decrease in difficulty score from the second missed flip. There should not be an EXTRA deduction because they didn't do all the flips they said they would do on their script.

I agree, some flexibility for obvious performance errors.

That was my argument that a script was not needed. If there is no script then there is no need for accuracy and it can be judged off what was seen in a video.

 

[Level5Mom]

That was my argument that a script was not needed. If there is no script then there is no need for accuracy and it can be judged off what was seen in a video.

I agree King. I just don't see a need for it. I think it can be done without it. But I guess I'm not opposed to it either. Maybe we should start without it, and if we find that scoring is taking too long it could be implemented in the future and tested to see if it speeds up judging.

I'd rather it take a little longer and be correct. I feel that a script almost invites a difficulty judge to scan a video quickly because they know what they are looking for, rather than actually look closely. I'd almost rather they have no idea what is coming. Again, if time is a concern, use 2 difficulty judges and split the routine in half.

 

[lildancer457]

I feel like having a script would help speed up the prosses because the judges would know what they are looking for and in what order, however, I don't think they should be penalized for going off the script. If the judges see something that's different from the script just take note of it in scoring.

 

[lildancer457]

I would like to see what an example of a script would look.

 

[King]

Maybe the script doesn't have numbers but just has order and description of skills.

 

[CGAcheer]

That was my argument that a script was not needed. If there is no script then there is no need for accuracy and it can be judged off what was seen in a video.

I thought the scripts purpose was more to speed up the job of the difficulty judge, so they can verify rather than have to create a script based on watching

 

[PullandPray23]

A team turns in a list of set skills right before the team competes of everything that team does (or should do) on the floor. That list (along with a high def video) goes to the difficulty judge. His/her whole job is to determine the difficulty of what is attempted on the floor. (note this is NOT the execution or performance of the skill, just the difficulty of the skill itself). At the end of the process a team should have a fairly accurate assessment of the difficulty of their team that (barring catastrophe from day 1 to day 2 or vice versa) should not vary much. The process should be objective and allow the live scoring judges (the ones who do the execution and performance scores done live) to not worry about difficulty.

What is wrong with this and why?

I would like to see a start value similar to Gymnastics with every skill having a set score value (i.e. fullups being worth say 2 points and 1 point for every 180 degrees beyond that)