All-Star Idea For How To Score Better

[King]

I think if the list is more a guide than a set number of skills that are competed the list could work. I just get concerned about saying (we have 20 standing fulls and 19 went and there is a small deduction).

Maybe the 'one' category that is subjective to a judges is the list accuracy. You lose one point in deductions if the list was highly inaccurate.

 

[BlueCat]

I have not suggested that the penalty would be high for a watered down skill. Pulling out of a skill would be much less severe than busting the skill. More like .01 compared to .1 Maybe something like double whatever credit the skill would have been worth difficulty-wise?

 

[King]

I have not suggested that the penalty would be high for a watered down skill. Pulling out of a skill would be much less severe than busting the skill. More like .01 compared to .1 Maybe something like double whatever credit the skill would have been worth difficulty-wise?

I'm just concerned it will increase the time it takes to score and make it more complicated.

 

[BlueCat]

I'm just concerned it will increase the time it takes to score and make it more complicated.

Fair enough. I had thought it would actually speed up the process of getting a list of skills, which is ultimately the only way to get the difficulty scores accurate.

 

[star1998]

I am all for separate judges for difficulty and execution, the video review is the part I'm not sure of.

I love the idea of video review...just a difficulty judge should be able to view it though.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Even if you were to just split things for judges and still have them judge it live you would be doing wonders. If i could just watch a routine and judge the difficulty i'd be completely fine. When I judged at WSF Indy, i was with another woman for the jumps/tumbling section of the score sheet. She sat at the computer and made execution notes as they were performing live. I wrote down skills and gave her their difficulty scores. I think it worked out really well for us and we didn't need video review.

 

[King]

Even if you were to just split things for judges and still have them judge it live you would be doing wonders. If i could just watch a routine and judge the difficulty i'd be completely fine. When I judged at WSF Indy, i was with another woman for the jumps/tumbling section of the score sheet. She sat at the computer and made execution notes as they were performing live. I wrote down skills and gave her their difficulty scores. I think it worked out really well for us and we didn't need video review.

My only thing about difficulty skills is it is very hard to catch everything someone is doing (no matter how good you are). By doing video review for difficulty you actually allow people to try harder things that are more intricate and difficult and guarantee they wont be missed because of a fast performance.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

My only thing about difficulty skills is it is very hard to catch everything someone is doing (no matter how good you are). By doing video review for difficulty you actually allow people to try harder things that are more intricate and difficult and guarantee they wont be missed because of a fast performance.

That is true. We did level 3 and 4 jumps and tumbling, so it is a bit easier than doing anything in a level 5 routine.

I don't think you need video review of every level. Perhaps it only happens for certain levels or divisions?

 

[King]

That is true. We did level 3 and 4 jumps and tumbling, so it is a bit easier than doing anything in a level 5 routine.

I don't think you need video review of every level. Perhaps it only happens for certain levels or divisions?

This might sound crazy but I think while jumps tends to be one of the easier categoris to do difficulty on, stunts in level 1 can be just has hard to get right as level 5. The amount of ballups and 1/4 and tick tocks this year has been crazy. Or in level 4 how many different ways there are to do a fullup... and do you, just onsite and by eye, give credit a team does a fullup the easier way? Pyramids are the same.

 

[kristenthegreat]

That is true. We did level 3 and 4 jumps and tumbling, so it is a bit easier than doing anything in a level 5 routine.

I don't think you need video review of every level. Perhaps it only happens for certain levels or divisions?

At the very least start with level 5 (I suppose you could do level six, but usually there aren't that many teams anyway. Maybe at Worlds?) Test it out at smaller competitions to start so they can get a feel for it. Maybe give gyms an incentive to participate at a competition that uses it...

 

[lcheergirl]

My only thing about difficulty skills is it is very hard to catch everything someone is doing (no matter how good you are). By doing video review for difficulty you actually allow people to try harder things that are more intricate and difficult and guarantee they wont be missed because of a fast performance.

I think like in any other sport out there right now, video should only be used for the purpose of disputes. Video takes away from the human element of sport, it should only be used if there is a mistake or a crucial judgement call that is questionable. I think making scoresheets public to coaches of all teams, will eliminate a lot of judging issues, because then it will be shown who scored what way, making judges accountable. I think rewarding judges from competitions on point systems, and having those judges, judge your top competitions by merit only. If you have a history of questionable scores then you are not allowed to score competitions where there will be bids awarded. Also not allowing gym owners to judge competitions. Video should also only be used if mistakes are going to be corrected!!!

 

[imrichhowboutu]

How bout someone makes a system for us to use and a few of us test it out - at home - and time ourselves.

 

[King]

I think like in any other sport out there right now, video should only be used for the purpose of disputes. Video takes away from the human element of sport, it should only be used if there is a mistake or a crucial judgement call that is questionable. I think making scoresheets public to coaches of all teams, will eliminate a lot of judging issues, because then it will be shown who scored what way, making judges accountable. I think rewarding judges from competitions on point systems, and having those judges, judge your top competitions by merit only. If you have a history of questionable scores then you are not allowed to score competitions where there will be bids awarded. Also not allowing gym owners to judge competitions. Video should also only be used if mistakes are going to be corrected!!!

The only problem with NOT using coaches and gym owners to judge is they are the most getting their hands dirty knowing what the skills are worth.

 

[BlueCat]

I think like in any other sport out there right now, video should only be used for the purpose of disputes. Video takes away from the human element of sport, it should only be used if there is a mistake or a crucial judgement call that is questionable. I think making scoresheets public to coaches of all teams, will eliminate a lot of judging issues, because then it will be shown who scored what way, making judges accountable. I think rewarding judges from competitions on point systems, and having those judges, judge your top competitions by merit only. If you have a history of questionable scores then you are not allowed to score competitions where there will be bids awarded. Also not allowing gym owners to judge competitions. Video should also only be used if mistakes are going to be corrected!!!

So randomly including errors in scoring is an improvement? Should the "human element" of scoring include not being allowed to use calculators to tabulate results? That is just a piece of technology that allows more accuracy. Video is the same thing to me. I want it to be right more than I want to keep the status quo.

 

[BlueCat]

I think there is difficulty in selecting the judging. You are faced with the dilemma of coming up with people experienced enough with modern cheerleading to know the relative difficulty of modern skills, but NOT associated with or have a history with any particular gym. That is a tough combo to find. I definitely think that no judge should have an association with any gym they are judging, but you can't realistically expect every judge to have no all-star experience at all.