All-Star Idea For How To Score Better

[quitthedrama]

Dear USASF Rules Committee,
Please read this thread. I know I am over-generalizing, but I have heard that the rules don't change frequently and you move in "baby steps" in large part because you have to get everyone together to meet, discuss, review etc. etc. before you can vote on anything and you say this takes time and money that the committee does not have. This thread has been one of the most productive discussions with many different inputs, plus a test of the proposal to prove not only its legitamacy on why it is effective, but also shows what is currently in place is not effective...all for $0 and in less than 24 hours. IT CAN BE DONE!!!

 

[CGAcheer]

I can't see different judges making a difference if all they are doing is writing down the skills.
Maybe have one person get all the "skills sheets" and score them after the other judges have broken down the routines into skills.

but wouldn't they also be deciding a difficulty score based on what they see? deciding which scores higher a full full double or a whip double double or the 1.5 up immediate scorpion or the double up ext?

 

[GreatWhite92]

but wouldn't they also be deciding a difficulty score based on what they see? deciding which scores higher a full full double or a whip double double or the 1.5 up immediate scorpion or the double up ext?

Thats why maybe several people write down exactly what they see...no scores. just numbers of skills performed.

Then one person gets all those sheets, looks at the number of skills performed and scores them.

Is that what your asking?

 

[CGAcheer]

Thats why maybe several people write down exactly what they see...no scores. just numbers of skills performed.

Then one person gets all those sheets, looks at the number of skills performed and scores them.

Is that what your asking?

maybe with more refinement of the system rich and king would have been the same, But I think I would prefer having the same judge judge the entire division, some may pick out more skills than the others, some may be able to spot the fakers better.

 

[GreatWhite92]

maybe with more refinement of the system rich and king would have been the same, But I think I would prefer having the same judge judge the entire division, some may pick out more skills than the others, some may be able to spot the fakers better.

Oh I see what your saying. Video quality would probably help. But I don't really know how to fix that.

 

[CGAcheer]

BlueCat, kingston, imrichhowboutu

Now that you have a relatively accurate skill break down of the routine, how would you apply a score to it?
are 2 9.5 elements worth more than 1 10 element? what about 3?
If a team does the exact same sequence twice in the routine should that up their difficulty? Do we create an ever growing and changing list of what score to give which skill? What if the skill isn't on the list? Do you average the elements? Would the thigh stand in an ending pose bring down your difficulty? once you tick tock once does the second one add to the score? what if you were to just do the running man in a stunt?

 

[socratesofcheer]

@BlueCat, @kingston, @imrichhowboutu

While it took each of you approximately 12-13 minutes to break down the routine, I'm assuming it would take way less time if you had a script in front of you with what they were going to do. If you knew ahead of time they were going to do 7 one-whip-doubles, you would just verify they did it and move on. Not necessarily stop and count the way you just did doing the breakdown seeing it for the first time.

Also, let's face it, If Cheetahs takes 12 minutes, most of the rest of cheerleading will take significantly less time. You're talking about the best team, with the most "stuff' happening.

 

[King]

BlueCat, kingston, imrichhowboutu

Now that you have a relatively accurate skill break down of the routine, how would you apply a score to it?
are 2 9.5 elements worth more than 1 10 element? what about 3?
If a team does the exact same sequence twice in the routine should that up their difficulty? Do we create an ever growing and changing list of what score to give which skill? What if the skill isn't on the list? Do you average the elements? Would the thigh stand in an ending pose bring down your difficulty? once you tick tock once does the second one add to the score? what if you were to just do the running man in a stunt?

Once knowing the elements of the skills performed in ratio to how many are on the floor then it is possible to determine (in no way different than now) how difficult it is. Though I would allow skills to be .XX instead of just .X in difficulty.

 

[King]

@BlueCat, @kingston, @imrichhowboutu

While it took each of you approximately 12-13 minutes to break down the routine, I'm assuming it would take way less time if you had a script in front of you with what they were going to do. If you knew ahead of time they were going to do 7 one-whip-doubles, you would just verify they did it and move on. Not necessarily stop and count the way you just did doing the breakdown seeing it for the first time.

Also, let's face it, If Cheetahs takes 12 minutes, most of the rest of cheerleading will take significantly less time. You're talking about the best team, with the most "stuff' happening.

The concern is what repercussions exist for someone who mis-represents their routine.

I know I have no reason to lie as the less people lying the more efficient and accurate the system is. But that takes everyone being involved. How do you stop that gym from saying that have 10 standing doubles when they don't have any?

 

[socratesofcheer]

The concern is what repercussions exist for someone who mis-represents their routine.

I know I have no reason to lie as the less people lying the more efficient and accurate the system is. But that takes everyone being involved. How do you stop that gym from saying that have 10 standing doubles when they don't have any?

You deduct them. My point was, you would have a script and basically check off each skill as it is performed. If BlueCat had given you a routine breakdown prior to watching the video, would it have gone faster?

 

[King]

You deduct them. My point was, you would have a script and basically check off each skill as it is performed. If BlueCat had given you a routine breakdown prior to watching the video, would it have gone faster?

Of course. Knowing exactly what is 'supposed' to be performed would eliminate the job of the scoring guy completely. But as my earlier example there are plenty of times you call audibles in the warmup room. While I am comfortable telling a girl she should only full instead of attempt a double and not bust (and in turn receive a deduction for it being written wrongly on my sheet that I submitted) I feel like many people would feel so cemented into what was turned in they would have kids throw skills that 'that day' they just did not have.

 

[socratesofcheer]

Of course. Knowing exactly what is 'supposed' to be performed would eliminate the job of the scoring guy completely. But as my earlier example there are plenty of times you call audibles in the warmup room. While I am comfortable telling a girl she should only full instead of attempt a double and not bust (and in turn receive a deduction for it being written wrongly on my sheet that I submitted) I feel like many people would feel so cemented into what was turned in they would have kids throw skills that 'that day' they just did not have.

That way you have a sheet that you turn in right before you press play. This final sheet would have "last minute" changes to the routine because of warm up room changes etc. I don't think this would affect the in-routine audibles because those are probably very rare.

 

[King]

That way you have a sheet that you turn in right before you press play. This final sheet would have "last minute" changes to the routine because of warm up room changes etc. I don't think this would affect the in-routine audibles because those are probably very rare.

Agree with the rarity, though this does add another step to the whole process AND another step for coaches. I tend to find simpler more elegant solutions would be better. Now, I have only done one routine not 40, so it may be one of those things that can only be figured out if done in practice.

But we all seem to agree that judging difficulty 'live' is really ineffective. Getting an objective accurate difficulty score later seems to be fare as long as the judges judging live determine performance and execution scores.

 

[socratesofcheer]

Agree with the rarity, though this does add another step to the whole process AND another step for coaches. I tend to find simpler more elegant solutions would be better. Now, I have only done one routine not 40, so it may be one of those things that can only be figured out if done in practice.

But we all seem to agree that judging difficulty 'live' is really ineffective. Getting an objective accurate difficulty score later seems to be fare as long as the judges judging live determine performance and execution scores.

I guess there could be a check-in type person that you talk to before you get to the music station. This person would ask you if you have any changes and you tell them and they write it down. I would assume their would be minimal changes compared to the entire routine break down.

For Example:
Check-In: Do you have any changes in your routine difficulty from your declared difficulty sheet?
Coach: Yes, we will be doing 6 hs fulls instead of 7 and our back left stunt will be going straight up instead of doing a tic toc.
Check-In: Anything else?
Coach: Nope that's it.

 

[King]

I guess there could be a check-in type person that you talk to before you get to the music station. this person would ask you if you have any changes and you tell them and they write it down. I would assume their would be minimal changes compared to the entire routine break down.

For Example:
Check-In: Do you have any changes in your routine difficulty from your declared difficulty sheet?
Coach: Yes, we will be doing 6 hs fulls instead of 7 and our back left stunt will be going straight up instead of doing a tic toc.
Check-In: Anything else?
Coach: Nope that's it.

I think it is worth a college try.

While we are at it could we get rid of the music hand timers? Put your CD in the drive and if it says more than 2:31 you get a deduction. OR if your MP3 is more than 2:31. Just don't have white space. Boom goes the dynamite.