All-Star Inconsistency In Judging

[imrichhowboutu]

I think there is A LOT of inconsistancys that cost many teams first place, bids, and other awards. There needs to be something done to fix it. I know the safety judges are doing their job, and we all of course respect that, but couldent there be a class or something to take so that they are all on the same page and there isent so much inconsistancy?!?

To become USASF safety certified you need to attend a class and pass a test.

I think there should also be calls or updates sent out during the season with questionable rulings when people push the envelope.

 

[Deleted member 15]

The same thing happened with a team in my gym, not one that I coach. They went to a Jamfest event before Indy to see how they would do on the score sheet, got 1st place and most entertaining .. NO DEDUCTIONS ... Went to Jamfest Indy WITH THE SAME ROUTINE and on Day 1. got a 2.5 deduction for a legailty in there pyramid putting them in 6th place .. They corrected it on for Day 2 and ended up taking home 2nd which was a HUGE jump, but that legality that they did not catch at the first competition cost them a title. I was there when they spoke with the safety judge, who was EXTREMELY nice, by far the nicest safety judge we have ever delt with. She really tried to explain why it was ilegal, however she used a term (I can not remember it sorry) . When I went to the USASF glossary to look up the deffinition of this term, to help better understand why it was illegal there was NOTHING even in the glossary exept *Sorry we are working on this page (or something along those lines) .. Needless to say, how are we supposed to understand the USASF's interpretation of things if when we go to look it up it is no where to be found. How I would define something is not how she was defining it.

Having something illegal in your routine cost you the title, not the rules person that caught it or the rules people that didn't.

 

[Rudags]

I don't like the blame being placed on judges for catching/not catching things. As a coach, I believe that is MY job.

As far as complaining about MISTAKES made by people who should be making these calls.... Go get em!

 

[CatsCoach113]

The title of the thread is inconsistency in judging .. Know one is playing the blame game just saying it would be nice if the first judge at the first competition caught it. Not day two of the last competition of the season..

I'm aware of MY JOB as a coach but it is also the JUDGES JOB to catch it so it can be fixed. Sometimes people's interpretation on definitions are different which was the case in one of the incidents I said before .. Thank you to the 2nd safety judge who did her job and caught it on day one she made us aware and it was changed and we were able to move up 4 places which we where excited about, but it could have been completely avoided if at the first competition the safety judge did his or her job ... Hence the title INCONSISTENCY in judging

 

[TwistersPride]

I feel like there is a very thin line between legal and not legal with some stunting rules. If something in a routine, that may be just over that line, happens for a split second- I could see how it could be missed by one judge and caught by another.

 

[CatsCoach113]

I feel like there is a very thin line between legal and not legal with some stunting rules. If something in a routine, that may be just over that line, happens for a split second- I could see how it could be missed by one judge and caught by another.

I agree!! But I also think that's what they need to figure out. How to make it so it's not missed. Something needs to be done to get everyone on the same page!! It really stinks being that team called to the judges table because of something you have been doing all season

 

[BlueCat]

I agree!! But I also think that's what they need to figure out. How to make it so it's not missed. Something needs to be done to get everyone on the same page!! It really stinks being that team called to the judges table because of something you have been doing all season

Agreed, but you need to be upset at the legality judges that missed the legality earlier, not the ones that correctly caught it late in the season.

 

[JulieP]

Andre, can you clarify on the earlier post about additional rules changes that occurred in November. From looking at the USASF website, I see that the rules were last updated in October. At that point, it seemed like they weren't really changes- just clarifications. Can you confirm? Also, is there a deadline by which any clarifications would cease to be made for the year? I would assume that there would be no more changes this year, but I just want to be sure.

 

[CatsCoach113]

Agreed, but you need to be upset at the legality judges that missed the legality earlier, not the ones that correctly caught it late in the season.

I agree!! You can't be upset with people doing their job, especially when it's a safety concern!!! I agree 100% the person to be upset with is the ones who missed it, which is why I feel like I wish there was something they could do so that they are on the same page, so we don't have to be upset with anyone!! I'm sure safety judges don't like giving out legalities just like I am sure coaches don't intentionally put in skills to put the teams safety in danger, or to break the rules!

 

[krystynakrez]

Hmm I knew something like this would pop up

 

[Deleted member 15]

Andre, can you clarify on the earlier post about additional rules changes that occurred in November. From looking at the USASF website, I see that the rules were last updated in October. At that point, it seemed like they weren't really changes- just clarifications. Can you confirm? Also, is there a deadline by which any clarifications would cease to be made for the year? I would assume that there would be no more changes this year, but I just want to be sure.

The current set of rules is dated October 28th. I'm guessing the person that said November was just off by a couple days or they weren't made aware of the update until November. I believe there were only clarifications on the October 28 update, but I'm not sure what changes were made with each version of this year's rules. I think they are highlighted or noted on each set, but I'm not positive I read all of them. I know I looked at them to write about the changes on Spirit Post, but after that I don't think I looked at them until November.

I'm not aware of a deadline after which no more changes will be made, but I feel like Les said they only changes that would be made this late are things the Rules Committee believe are imminent dangers. I don't know if anything is being discussed because I'm not on the Rules Committee. There are a couple things that have come up in conversation with some of the Worlds rules officials that need to be clarified, but I don't think any of them are imminent dangers.

 

[coach12]

So basically what needs to happen is safety judges need to be trained better & rules need to be more clear.

 

[CatsCoach113]

So basically what needs to happen is safety judges need to be trained better & rules need to be more clear.

EXACTLY haha

 

[TheUltimateFan]

Agreed, but you need to be upset at the legality judges that missed the legality earlier, not the ones that correctly caught it late in the season.

Is that always true though? In one example a team did not receive a legality deduction at a Jamfest regional competition, but then had the deduction applied for the exact same pyramid at Jamfest SuperNationals. In that case, Jamfest acknowledged that the judges working the regional competition were not as experienced as those working S/N and should have noted the infraction.

I can understand inconsistencies across different EPs, but doesn't an EP have responsibility for consistent judging across their own events?

Yes, be upset at the first judge. But does it make it fair that his or her lack of competence cost the team a placement or a title? I think the EP owns the blame there and should be accountable...assuming you have video proof.

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

Is that always true though? In one example a team did not receive a legality deduction at a Jamfest regional competition, but then had the deduction applied for the exact same pyramid at Jamfest SuperNationals. In that case, Jamfest acknowledged that the judges working the regional competition were not as experienced as those working S/N and should have noted the infraction.

I can understand inconsistencies across different EPs, but doesn't an EP have responsibility for consistent judging across their own events?

Yes, be upset at the first judge. But does it make it fair that his or her lack of competence cost the team a placement or a title? I think the EP owns the blame there and should be accountable...assuming you have video proof.

I would think the coaches should be held accountable for an illegal move.