All-Star Inconsistent Judging

[travnation80]

my bad rich lol i thought i typed 1997...lol

96 (olympics are always in even # years).
And i still think that there are some people that are more unique. But you also have to look at the skills. Could it be the same in cheerleading, that as the elements get harder, there is less creativity because so much time and effort is put into perfecting things.

I think what A LOT of issues in cheerleading come from is the following: Is cheerleading an ART or a SPORT.
If it is a performing ART, then sure, get creative, wear whatever you want, etc. If it is a SPORT, then I believe there needs to be more uniformity in terms of universal score sheets, rules for uniforms and choreography, etc.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I think I've said this before, but I think the scoresheet that Judges use needs to be universal. So they can score in the same ranges and point system everywhere.... HOWEVER, I think companies should be allowed to use their own multipliers. For example, maybe All Star Challenge has a 2X multiplier on the choreography based sections. Cheersport may put a 3X multiplier on the Execution column. This way, the Judge won't change the way they score, but the teams will be rewarded by the competition in the way that fits their company.

 

[travnation80]

I never said only I said Few and I agree with you to an extent.

I also disagree that TG is one of the ONLY gyms that can still give you creativity and skill. But that's just me. I see LOTS of entertaining routines out there with TONS of skill from plenty of gyms. The scoresheet has nothing to do with that. That has to do with good choreography, good coaching and good knowledge of the sport.

 

[cheerinfo]

My main point, I guess, is that if being creative scores well on Varsity's scoresheet (just using it as an example), then why not make that the universal scoresheet? I do not see how it hampers anyone's ability to still carry on how they have been. There are arguments to NOT having universal scoring (not that I agree with any of them, but there are some)...but I don't think this is one of them. I do not see how it disallows creativity. JMO though.

 

[PrimeTime]

I think that a standardized score sheet would promote more creativity. If all of the teams were aiming after the same parts of the score sheet to max out then the ones that would stand out would be the ones that added more creativity into the routines, the routines that make you go "WOW"! I don't think we need to separate whether cheering is a sport or art either, I think the great thing is about this sport is that it is both!

 

[King]

OK, as a percentage of your score, how much should be dedicated to creativity?

Should 10% of your score be from creativity? 20%? 50% Everyones opinion?

 

[travnation80]

After attending the NACCC Conference in May here in Miami, I can honestly tell you that we are closer to having an Equal point scale (I.E. 100, 200, 300 points) on a score sheet than having a Universal Scoresheet. The Event Producers seem more open to the point scale than just an over all universal scoresheet, But I feel that if we had a Universal Score sheet then why would I go to a Varsity Competition (for example only) that could cost more than a Jambrands competition or the Independent cheer companies prices?
@cheerinfo I hear you if the universal score sheet could involve creativity that would be outstanding, but most people regard the universal score sheet as more skilled based like the worlds score sheet

 

[cheerinfo]

The thing is, I see creativity in every section of a routine. Stunts, pyramids, transitions, tumbling, dance, etc. So to have a set "category" is hard for me to see. I know there is an overall impression/choreography/creativity section on some scoresheets...but I don't know how to weight it. I would say maybe all three of those should be 10%. I like scoresheets to be in tens. Add up to 100. So if that is 10 points, you have 90 points to dedicate to the other areas. i.e. 10 points to stunts, 10 points to tumbling, etc.

 

[cheerinfo]

After attending the NACCC Conference in May here in Miami, I can honestly tell you that we are closer to having an Equal point scale (I.E. 100, 200, 300 points) on a score sheet than having a Universal Scoresheet. The Event Producers seem more open to the point scale than just an over all universal scoresheet, But I feel that if we had a Universal Score sheet then why would I go to a Varsity Competition (for example only) that could cost more than a Jambrands competition or the Independent cheer companies prices?
@cheerinfo I hear you if the universal score sheet could involve creativity that would be outstanding, but most people regard the universal score sheet as more skilled based like the worlds score sheet

Who regards the universal scoresheet as skill based? I don't agree that "most" would want that. There may be some. But I think that in general, people (coaches, judges, EPs, etc.) like to see creativity and differing styles...as long as you hit the skills where necessary AS WELL.

 

[BlueCat]

OK, as a percentage of your score, how much should be dedicated to creativity?

Should 10% of your score be from creativity? 20%? 50% Everyones opinion?

Without going into the math issues of how % of total score isn't the best measure of categories' effect on the ranking, I would say around 20-25%.

(This assumes that creativity is pulled out of the skill score categories.)

 

[cupieqt]

OK, as a percentage of your score, how much should be dedicated to creativity?

Should 10% of your score be from creativity? 20%? 50% Everyones opinion?

We have agreed on this before. 50/50

 

[travnation80]

Were you at the conference? We had a number of event producers there and 125 gyms and independents (independent meaning people who don't coach or own a gym currently but are still active in the sport via judging, choreography etc)

Who regards the universal scoresheet as skill based? I don't agree that "most" would want that. There may be some. But I think that in general, people (coaches, judges, EPs, etc.) like to see creativity and differing styles...as long as you hit the skills where necessary AS WELL.

 

[cheerinfo]

No, I was not. However, I cannot imagine an entire industry voting to put into effect a scoresheet that it completely skill-based and allows NO creativity or choreography. I highly doubt EPs would vote for that either. I could be wrong...that is just my gut talking at this point.

 

[King]

Without going into the math issues of how % of total score isn't the best measure of categories' effect on the ranking, I would say around 20-25%.

(This assumes that creativity is pulled out of the skill score categories.)

I know, but looking for a philosophy on how much it should matter than a mathematical score at this point.

We have agreed on this before. 50/50

Basically the boring team that does really hard stuff should lose to the team that has ok skills but VERY creative cute ideas?

 

[cheerinfo]

I do NOT favor 50/50. NO NO NO. 10% is my vote. Maybe 15% tops.