All-Star Isaf Worlds Divisions

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

i wish they would put Worlds rule, crossovers from World to Summit and jumping levels, all year round.

I'd love to see it like this:

Team is formed at a level. Once team competes at said level, your level is "locked in" so to speak for the season.

Once a team locks in at a level, you can only compete one above or one below.

Example: Let's say Shady Athletics forms a Small Senior 5. Once it competes as a SS5, it is now officially locked in as a Level 5.

It can level up to a 6. It can also level DOWN to a 4. But can't go any lower or higher.

Need to change levels beyond that? (Ex: everyone with Worlds tumbling blew out knees and and is magically only able to tuck?) Petition USASF to change levels.

But that is too complicated and USASF can't even add/rank decimals correctly so I'm asking a lot.

Also too many variables such as are we letting Worlds teams drop to a 4.2. Technically it is a four and 4 is less than 5?

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

As far as Worlds to Summit crossovers, I have to defer to people who have competed but isn't the current rule that you can only have 5 Worlds kids on any Summit team?

I feel like that is a decent number limit (it's not a "half the team is Worlds kids" number) but I also am not a Summit athlete.

Are 5 kids from a Worlds team really changing the landscape of a team that much in relation to its competition?

 

[luv2cheer92]

As far as Worlds to Summit crossovers, I have to defer to people who have competed but isn't the current rule that you can only have 5 Worlds kids on any Summit team?

I feel like that is a decent number limit (it's not a "half the team is Worlds kids" number) but I also am not a Summit athlete.

Are 5 kids from a Worlds team really changing the landscape of a team that much in relation to its competition?

Yes it is 5 per team. Only exception is J5 which allows 8.

 

[cheermomforever]

As far as Worlds to Summit crossovers, I have to defer to people who have competed but isn't the current rule that you can only have 5 Worlds kids on any Summit team?

I feel like that is a decent number limit (it's not a "half the team is Worlds kids" number) but I also am not a Summit athlete.

Are 5 kids from a Worlds team really changing the landscape of a team that much in relation to its competition?

Not really BUT rule should be year round not let’s have 10 World athletes in a R5. (5),
Or 5 in a lower level all year then in March have “summit” tryouts for the 5 xtra crossovers.

 

[coachrah]

Yes, we really need both level 6 and 7 non-tumbling. Most US kids wouldn't even dream of tumbling on dead mats, so to expect the rest of the world to keep up with your tumbling which is mostly on spring floor is ridiculous. Not to mention how many people start cheer late (age 15 and up) and have a much harder time gaining tumbling skills. And there's a big difference in level 6 and 7 stunting, and we already had a big debacle about a level 7 team competing level 6 nt, so clearly level 7 nt is needed. (most counties doesn't even have nt as a division at home, so don't worry about them not trying to gain tumbling..)

And no, most international teams are NOT able to enter the "regular" divisions, as US is one of very few countries where senior divisions has an age cap. This means most international senior teams have kids over the age of 18, and just making up a team with kids under 18 with worlds level skills is near impossible. If you only want the US, then go to US finals, or any other national invitation comp, not the world championship. The regular divisions aren't why cheer exists, an age cap doesn't define cheerleading.

This post just sounds so entitled and ignorant.

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Here is the confusion as it points to the history of all star cheerleading in the United States which is in direct opposition of what you have stated and maybe what you have been led to believe. All Star Cheer gained its roots in the USA as an alternative to sideline cheerleading. The gym owners who took the risk started their teams on spring floors for the most part. I could be wrong but their vision was to showcase advanced tumbling and hire advanced coaches and give the athletes they trained a focus on skill training vs. cheering for other sport teams. I remember in the 90’s that the difference between the style of a 2.5 minute all star routine and the spring floor set these teams apart from the average high school. This is not to disparage any competitive high school team BUT these teams often rented space in gymnastic facilities until they quickly grew out of their seams. I don’t think their intention was to gain international dominance. It is what it is and gotta believe it is difficult to dial it back.

 

[AshleyErin]

Yes, we really need both level 6 and 7 non-tumbling. Most US kids wouldn't even dream of tumbling on dead mats, so to expect the rest of the world to keep up with your tumbling which is mostly on spring floor is ridiculous. Not to mention how many people start cheer late (age 15 and up) and have a much harder time gaining tumbling skills. And there's a big difference in level 6 and 7 stunting, and we already had a big debacle about a level 7 team competing level 6 nt, so clearly level 7 nt is needed. (most counties doesn't even have nt as a division at home, so don't worry about them not trying to gain tumbling..)

And no, most international teams are NOT able to enter the "regular" divisions, as US is one of very few countries where senior divisions has an age cap. This means most international senior teams have kids over the age of 18, and just making up a team with kids under 18 with worlds level skills is near impossible. If you only want the US, then go to US finals, or any other national invitation comp, not the world championship. The regular divisions aren't why cheer exists, an age cap doesn't define cheerleading.

This post just sounds so entitled and ignorant.

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THANK YOU.

Until people in the US realize this sport exists because of the international divisions it will never move forward. US (and Canadian) senior divisions is not where the end-all-be-all of cheerleading is, it is going to lie with adults representing their countries.

Here is the confusion as it points to the history of all star cheerleading in the United States which is in direct opposition of what you have stated and maybe what you have been led to believe. All Star Cheer gained its roots in the USA as an alternative to sideline cheerleading. The gym owners who took the risk started their teams on spring floors for the most part. I could be wrong but their vision was to showcase advanced tumbling and hire advanced coaches and give the athletes they trained a focus on skill training vs. cheering for other sport teams. I remember in the 90’s that the difference between the style of a 2.5 minute all star routine and the spring floor set these teams apart from the average high school. This is not to disparage any competitive high school team BUT these teams often rented space in gymnastic facilities until they quickly grew out of their seams. I don’t think their intention was to gain international dominance. It is what it is and gotta believe it is difficult to dial it back.

I don't see how that relates to her original post?

It is ridiculous to say something wasn't intentionally spread world wide...of course it wasn't, but it happened and international recognition and participation is most certainly what the IASF is intent on creating. The history of all star is certainly rooted in the USA, but you also have to recognize that internationally, sideline cheer has NEVER existed at a high school level - at least not widespread anyway. These athletes are coming directly into all star and struggling to keep up with the tumbling skills of elite US teams. We aren't asking you to dial back, we are asking you to stop talking about cheerleading in the US like it's the boy's club and we aren't allowed in. IASF is catered to international teams, or at least it should be.

I'm Canadian, so I kinda see it from both sides. Yes the sport has grown MASSIVELY here since I started, and 3 or 4 gyms are hugely successful even by US standards, but we are still developing and a majority of gyms can't field a viable* worlds team with 100% worlds level tumbling.

 

[coachrah]

THANK YOU.

Until people in the US realize this sport exists because of the international divisions it will never move forward. US (and Canadian) senior divisions is not where the end-all-be-all of cheerleading is, it is going to lie with adults representing their countries.



I don't see how that relates to her original post?

It is ridiculous to say something wasn't intentionally spread world wide...of course it wasn't, but it happened and international recognition and participation is most certainly what the IASF is intent on creating. The history of all star is certainly rooted in the USA, but you also have to recognize that internationally, sideline cheer has NEVER existed at a high school level - at least not widespread anyway. These athletes are coming directly into all star and struggling to keep up with the tumbling skills of elite US teams. We aren't asking you to dial back, we are asking you to stop talking about cheerleading in the US like it's the boy's club and we aren't allowed in. IASF is catered to international teams, or at least it should be.

I'm Canadian, so I kinda see it from both sides. Yes the sport has grown MASSIVELY here since I started, and 3 or 4 gyms are hugely successful even by US standards, but we are still developing and a majority of gyms can't field a viable* worlds team with 100% worlds level tumbling.

I’m sorry you are misinterpreting my post. I fully understand creating parity for the growth moving forward. It is my opinion that all stars roots were an alternative for the said purpose of competition only vs. cheering for another team. With that said purpose came elevated training in elements not conducted on the sidelines. Good to know sideline cheer doesn’t exist in many parts of the World. Peculiar that sideline cheer is the intended Olympic model. I spend most of my time supporting the opportunities of athletes and the safe training for their success. This was not trash talking and quite sorry that was your take on it.

 

[Belinda]

I’m sorry you are misinterpreting my post. I fully understand creating parity for the growth moving forward. It is my opinion that all stars roots were an alternative for the said purpose of competition only vs. cheering for another team. With that said purpose came elevated training in elements not conducted on the sidelines. Good to know sideline cheer doesn’t exist in many parts of the World. Peculiar that sideline cheer is the intended Olympic model. I spend most of my time supporting the opportunities of athletes and the safe training for their success. This was not trash talking and quite sorry that was your take on it.

I think you misunderstood my post too, and I think you misunderstand what is meant to be in the Olympics. ICU has provisional Olympic status, and that is very much all star cheer. With an opening chant, and on dead mats, but very much all star. Which is how all star looks in most in the world. As already stated, high school/uni sports and therefore sideline cheer is really only a thing in the US and had nothing to do with my post. What I was trying to say is the way the us does their age grid is not the norm, and the us cannot dictate the entire cheer community. This further proves my point of ignorance.

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[fullinitup]

The non tumbling divisions don’t belong at worlds but would be a better fit st summit alongside IO4

 

[AshleyErin]

I’m sorry you are misinterpreting my post. I fully understand creating parity for the growth moving forward. It is my opinion that all stars roots were an alternative for the said purpose of competition only vs. cheering for another team. With that said purpose came elevated training in elements not conducted on the sidelines. Good to know sideline cheer doesn’t exist in many parts of the World. Peculiar that sideline cheer is the intended Olympic model. I spend most of my time supporting the opportunities of athletes and the safe training for their success. This was not trash talking and quite sorry that was your take on it.

I think it is a bit of misinterpretation on both sides, which brings up something valid: we need education on the growth and status of the sport world wide from all sides. I know a lot of American gym owners, coaches and choreographers are trying to spread the wealth, but until everyone can get on the same page I don't think it will help.

Yeah! Even in Canada, my high school team was purely all star based - only competitions, no cheering on other sports teams (and there were only 2 schools in my district of almost 20 that even had teams). I honestly think that helped our image at the school as athletes because the other students saw us doing our own thing. We even had people from our high school come and spectate at competitions which was really cool and I feel like is out of the norm unless they're your friends.

....and in university you bet we all groaned about game days because we weren't used to sideline cheering, but even then we didn't practice anything game day as a team past the first 3 practices

 

[coachrah]

I think you misunderstood my post too, and I think you misunderstand what is meant to be in the Olympics. ICU has provisional Olympic status, and that is very much all star cheer. With an opening chant, and on dead mats, but very much all star. Which is how all star looks in most in the world. As already stated, high school/uni sports and therefore sideline cheer is really only a thing in the US and had nothing to do with my post. What I was trying to say is the way the us does their age grid is not the norm, and the us cannot dictate the entire cheer community. This further proves my point of ignorance.

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High school cheer and college cheer is on deadmat in the USA. Some have a sideline based cheer or chant... some do not depending on the scoring. All Star cheer in the United States, even while at Worlds is on spring floor. What am I missing? Team USA is not working from the all star model but the sideline model when they compete for ICU. College Nationals in the US is not all star in either purpose or format. It is sideline. I think the likelihood of confusion tells a much different story in itself.

 

[Belinda]

High school cheer and college cheer is on deadmat in the USA. Some have a sideline based cheer or chant... some do not depending on the scoring. All Star cheer in the United States, even while at Worlds is on spring floor. What am I missing? Team USA is not working from the all star model but the sideline model when they compete for ICU. College Nationals in the US is not all star in either purpose or format. It is sideline. I think the likelihood of confusion tells a much different story in itself.

What is at the ICU is what all star cheerleading looks like in a lot of the world, especially Europe, that's what you're missing.

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[AshleyErin]

High school cheer and college cheer is on deadmat in the USA. Some have a sideline based cheer or chant... some do not depending on the scoring. All Star cheer in the United States, even while at Worlds is on spring floor. What am I missing? Team USA is not working from the all star model but the sideline model when they compete for ICU. College Nationals in the US is not all star in either purpose or format. It is sideline. I think the likelihood of confusion tells a much different story in itself.

A lot of the world ONLY has dead mat competitions....even in all star
You're talking about the USA, we are talking about a majority of the world, and this is where the confusion lies

 

[coachrah]

What is at the ICU is what all star cheerleading looks like in a lot of the world, especially Europe, that's what you're missing.

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I understand and thank you. What you are missing is that what sideline cheerleading and competitive cheer looks like in the United States was stopped from being a sport. Lobbyied against. I’m not missing anything.

 

[caffeineandglitter]

I would be interested to know worldwide, how many programs exist that practice on a dead mat and how many programs exist that that practice on a spring floor. Anyone know of a way to figure that out?
(It seems like if Varsity wants to grow the sport, they should be figuring out how to make sure teams have access to spring floors, since the events they run are held on spring floors...and they aren't cheap)