All-Star Jam Brands Has Merged With Varsity

[randomactsofcheer]

This right here nails it on the head. The costs of staying home and training and are not too bad at all. It is the costs of competition/travel that when added to All Star cheer that is driving people out of the industry. Doing Power Tumbling also gets them ready for school cheer which is very big in our area and lets them compete the harder skills they learned in the gym that they may not compete in school cheer due to safety reasons.

Just as an example. For our power tumbling program which is in our second year

99.00 tuition 2 days a week 3 hours total.
50 - 125.00 Uniform Depending on team level
800.00 competition/coaches fees (8 competitions not including nationals)

Travel - completely up to parent. No stay to play. It is suggested to use certain hotels for Nationals but you don't have to if you are not attending the other things they are offering for the athletes.
If you add in two nationals AAU and USTA you increase price by 500-1000 only if you qualify AND stay in hotels or fly. it can be done for under 500.00 if you know how to swing it.

Those athletes/parents that drop out of cheer because of pricing love the price savings. They especially love going to compete at 9am and having awards by 10am.

Oh how I wish your gym was near us! I searched for a gym that offered power tumbling before starting a new cheer season. Our reasons for wanting CP to try power tumbling didn't have anything to do with cost, but it didn't matter as there are no gyms in our area that offer it. The options are gymnastics or cheer. Or just take tumbling classes without any competitive option.

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

I understand. I guess I'm thinking if more and more families are getting priced out of cheer then either gyms will have to travel less or new "lower budget" gyms will open. Kids will still want to cheer and someone will take advantage of it. But of course it won't happen in every town. :(

Thankfully, my gym had three different team options - local, regional, and national level teams - so they could accommodate all different types of incomes. And thankfully they were an established gym and could offer that. They had enough athletes and a solid foundation in cheer to be able to offer those things (I think they're going on their 20th year now so they've been in the game for a while. The owner is a well known lady in the biz.). Thankfully they were able to be accessible to most families that were interested in cheer. Thankfully, thankfully, thankfully. I was so thankful for my gym.

Unfortunately, some communities don't have gyms like this for one reason or another.

 

[Ashley]

This all sounds great in theory, but how long is a kid going to want to cheer for a program that doesn't go to Worlds or Summit? And it isn't just about not traveling. Even 2 years ago (same gym, same level), my costs were not this high. An increase of about $1,500 to attend the exact same competitions is concerning.

I mean, there are plenty of gyms that have worlds teams that don't do nearly the level of traveling that your gym does. Our gym does maybe one flying competition and one driving one (5-6 hr drive) outside of worlds/a year end comp for the younger teams. And I'm not even sure if they're doing a flying competition this year. And our gym is an hour away from yours.

I agree that STP is getting ridiculous and people are getting priced out, but I don't think your costs are the norm, at least not outside of super elite/world champion/finalist gyms anyway.

 

[quitthedrama]

I mean, there are plenty of gyms that have worlds teams that don't do nearly the level of traveling that your gym does. Our gym does maybe one flying competition and one driving one (5-6 hr drive) outside of worlds/a year end comp for the younger teams. And I'm not even sure if they're doing a flying competition this year. And our gym is an hour away from yours.

I agree that STP is getting ridiculous and people are getting priced out, but I don't think your costs are the norm, at least not outside of super elite/world champion/finalist gyms anyway.

Regarding the amount of travel, CP's team attended 2 flight comps last year (excluding Worlds). Although some gyms only do one, I don't think it is excessive. I also think that it is necessary to attend certain competitions to prepare for Worlds if you want to be a contender. But I agree that depending on what you are looking for from all star cheer, no travel is necessary.
I think the amount of travel teams do can not be directly held against any competition provider. However, lets compare apples to apples. If you take my comparison of costs from NCA 2014 to what I will pay for NCA 2016, the cost increase is huge. The exact same competition has doubled in expense strictly due to hotel/competition related fees. This is specifically what is pricing me out of cheer and is 100% EP driven.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

Many of my friends and I discuss this often as most of us are out of cheer from either switching to other sports or aging out.

First I always say the unpopular opinion that much of this cost is our (the parents) fault. Eight to ten years ago a uniform, 2 t-shirts and 2 soffe shorts, a bow, and one traveling competition (with or without flight depending on level) was all it took to make us happy. We have shown the industry that parents are willing to keep paying for all the extras so like any business they keep upping the price.

Secondly, many other elite sports cost this much BUT the big difference to me (again an unpopular opinion) is the bang for the buck from other sports is much greater. An elite soccer player family easily pays a comparable amount to a medal contending world's team BUT full ride scholarships for soccer (as are other sports) are plentiful. It doesn't hurt as much when you know your kid will have college taken care of for 4 years. In addition an elite cheer team takes significantly more time than a comparable elite team in another sport leaving very little room for other activities. One of former CPs best friends has a full ride soccer scholarship and is a top 50 player in the country yet still has plenty of time for other things in life.

So for what it's worth I think we the parents played a significant role in this price surge. I also think parents of teenagers cheering allstar need to take a very serious look at this sport and what is required both cost and time wise. We concluded that allstar cheer as it is designed today really isn't worth it once the kids are teenagers unless you have one of those truly gifted "protege" type kids. I hope that changes because we enjoyed the time cheering when she was younger.

 

[Official OWECheer]

This right here nails it on the head. The costs of staying home and training and are not too bad at all. It is the costs of competition/travel that when added to All Star cheer that is driving people out of the industry. Doing Power Tumbling also gets them ready for school cheer which is very big in our area and lets them compete the harder skills they learned in the gym that they may not compete in school cheer due to safety reasons.

Just as an example. For our power tumbling program which is in our second year

99.00 tuition 2 days a week 3 hours total.
50 - 125.00 Uniform Depending on team level
800.00 competition/coaches fees (8 competitions not including nationals)

Travel - completely up to parent. No stay to play. It is suggested to use certain hotels for Nationals but you don't have to if you are not attending the other things they are offering for the athletes.
If you add in two nationals AAU and USTA you increase price by 500-1000 only if you qualify AND stay in hotels or fly. it can be done for under 500.00 if you know how to swing it.

Those athletes/parents that drop out of cheer because of pricing love the price savings. They especially love going to compete at 9am and having awards by 10am.

:cheering: I think that's the best way to go. Have kids start out in PT or gymnastics, then switch over to cheer in middle or high school so that you can be sure that they've been taught correctly (not that there aren't cheer coaches that care about that, but they are harder to find in cheer).

 

[SL&AM]

:cheering: I think that's the best way to go. Have kids start out in PT or gymnastics, then switch over to cheer in middle or high school so that you can be sure that they've been taught correctly (not that there aren't cheer coaches that care about that, but they are harder to find in cheer).

This would be my daughter if I told her she'd have to give up cheer until she was in middle school. Cheer is her thing; we've tried gymnastics, we've tried dance, heck I even let her try out soccer and t-ball...sure she's joined Running Club but only because 'it didn't conflict with cheer' and I talked her into Girl Scouts after ensuring it 'didn't conflict with cheer' because she's a 7 year old who loves cheer. As a parent, I'd rather not have to look at her and say, "Sorry, I know you love it, but..." if I don't absolutely have to. Her father and I both make enough money that it shouldn't be an issue in the next five years, but let's be real---if I have to start spending $10,000 a year on cheer; even though we CAN doesn't mean I want to. $10,000 is a lot of money when you consider savings, retirement, college accounts, weddings, traveling my DH and I want to do down the road...etc. Could I justify it for a year, maybe two---probably, but year in year out from what? The time she's 10 to 18...no. I won't do it. That is why this, as a parent, scares me---I think it can be good, but monopolies are almost always bad.

I don't think Varsity is evil; they're a business doing what big businesses do, but I won't pretend that this is good for me or my CP. It's not.

 

[icame2WERQ]

Quick Question, and hopefully it comes out right..

if you're a mega gym (which i know there isnt as many as we think) .. and have tons of location within your state .. if you bought out your competitions / potential competition.. dont you have some blame in this situation as well since you no longer have local competition, and now in order to find competition you have to travel out of state?

 

[ASCheerMan]

I suspected this when Jam and Varsity created that universal score sheet. Make the routines score well for both EPs so when Varsity buys Jam, there won't be a massive uproar by gym owners/coaches and there will be a smoother transition.

Seems like there is always a seedy underside to seemingly good news. Like with the uniform rules. LBH, the only reason that mesh counts as part of a full top is because it makes money. SMH.

I've heard a lot of funny conspiracy theories regarding our industry, but this is the first I've heard of a 'mesh conspiracy theory' to make more money off of uniforms by allowing mesh. I was on the committee that agreed that mesh counted as 'covering the midriff'. And the only motivation in making that decision was the fact that it literally met the definition of 'covering the midriff. lol My salary isn't at all tied to uniform sales and I will stand by my original position that we needed to cover up our athletes and the decision wasn't even slightly motivated by uniform sales.

As far as developing our unified scoring system goes, It was myself and Jeremi Sanders that initially got together 3 years ago to begin merging scoring systems. I'm sure to the outside eye, it looks like it was part of some master, strategic plan. But the truth is neither one of us were ever brought in to merger conversations. We were genuinely sitting down, trying to find commonality in our scoring systems so that our customers could have a smoother season as they bounced between competition companies.

 

[KPep]

I've heard a lot of funny conspiracy theories regarding our industry, but this is the first I've heard of a 'mesh conspiracy theory' to make more money off of uniforms by allowing mesh. I was on the committee that agreed that mesh counted as 'covering the midriff'. And the only motivation in making that decision was the fact that it literally met the definition of 'covering the midriff. lol My salary isn't at all tied to uniform sales and I will stand by my original position that we needed to cover up our athletes and the decision wasn't even slightly motivated by uniform sales.

As far as developing our unified scoring system goes, It was myself and Jeremi Sanders that initially got together 3 years ago to begin merging scoring systems. I'm sure to the outside eye, it looks like it was part of some master, strategic plan. But the truth is neither one of us were ever brought in to merger conversations. We were genuinely sitting down, trying to find commonality in our scoring systems so that our customers could have a smoother season as they bounced between competition companies.

Do you define covering as "there is a fabric over the midriff" or you define it as "you can't see the midriff". I thought the whole point of covering was to hide?!

 

[Mom2Cheergirls]

I've heard a lot of funny conspiracy theories regarding our industry, but this is the first I've heard of a 'mesh conspiracy theory' to make more money off of uniforms by allowing mesh. I was on the committee that agreed that mesh counted as 'covering the midriff'. And the only motivation in making that decision was the fact that it literally met the definition of 'covering the midriff. lol My salary isn't at all tied to uniform sales and I will stand by my original position that we needed to cover up our athletes and the decision wasn't even slightly motivated by uniform sales.

As far as developing our unified scoring system goes, It was myself and Jeremi Sanders that initially got together 3 years ago to begin merging scoring systems. I'm sure to the outside eye, it looks like it was part of some master, strategic plan. But the truth is neither one of us were ever brought in to merger conversations. We were genuinely sitting down, trying to find commonality in our scoring systems so that our customers could have a smoother season as they bounced between competition companies.

THANK YOU FOR THIS! I wish all level teams had to be covered but I get Senior teams.... it would be great if some of the top gyms dressed their elite teams as athletes not saying no mid-drifts.... some have definitely found the professional cheerleader (and ahem ...other professions - seriously a few outfits look like stripper outfits) looks still to be worth their time and to me it just takes away from what these kids are doing.

THANK YOU FOR THIS AS WELL! We have had to change routines around in the past specifically because of how the score sheets differed so personally conspiracy theory or not I like the standard score sheet.

 

[SL&AM]

I've heard a lot of funny conspiracy theories regarding our industry, but this is the first I've heard of a 'mesh conspiracy theory' to make more money off of uniforms by allowing mesh. I was on the committee that agreed that mesh counted as 'covering the midriff'. And the only motivation in making that decision was the fact that it literally met the definition of 'covering the midriff. lol My salary isn't at all tied to uniform sales and I will stand by my original position that we needed to cover up our athletes and the decision wasn't even slightly motivated by uniform sales.

As far as developing our unified scoring system goes, It was myself and Jeremi Sanders that initially got together 3 years ago to begin merging scoring systems. I'm sure to the outside eye, it looks like it was part of some master, strategic plan. But the truth is neither one of us were ever brought in to merger conversations. We were genuinely sitting down, trying to find commonality in our scoring systems so that our customers could have a smoother season as they bounced between competition companies.

Perhaps clarifying the rules for mesh should be in order after reviewing the Uniforms thread for this season...

I also appreciate the latter. Universal scoring is a good thing.

And I saw your tweet about Jammy; please tell me you're gonna burn him right? I mean, he's creepy...and, well, he needs to go!

 

[Official OWECheer]

Many of my friends and I discuss this often as most of us are out of cheer from either switching to other sports or aging out.

First I always say the unpopular opinion that much of this cost is our (the parents) fault. Eight to ten years ago a uniform, 2 t-shirts and 2 soffe shorts, a bow, and one traveling competition (with or without flight depending on level) was all it took to make us happy. We have shown the industry that parents are willing to keep paying for all the extras so like any business they keep upping the price.

Secondly, many other elite sports cost this much BUT the big difference to me (again an unpopular opinion) is the bang for the buck from other sports is much greater. An elite soccer player family easily pays a comparable amount to a medal contending world's team BUT full ride scholarships for soccer (as are other sports) are plentiful. It doesn't hurt as much when you know your kid will have college taken care of for 4 years. In addition an elite cheer team takes significantly more time than a comparable elite team in another sport leaving very little room for other activities. One of former CPs best friends has a full ride soccer scholarship and is a top 50 player in the country yet still has plenty of time for other things in life.

So for what it's worth I think we the parents played a significant role in this price surge. I also think parents of teenagers cheering allstar need to take a very serious look at this sport and what is required both cost and time wise. We concluded that allstar cheer as it is designed today really isn't worth it once the kids are teenagers unless you have one of those truly gifted "protege" type kids. I hope that changes because we enjoyed the time cheering when she was younger.

I think multiple parties are responsible:

1) The families that don't want to cheer at a gym unless it travels to big competitions/has Worlds and/or Summit teams, and desperately want the flashing lights, glitz and glam that bigger competitions offer.

2) The gyms that drag families into paying for STP, even though the costs are ridiculous, and desperately want the flashing lights, glitz and glam that bigger competitions offer.

3) The EPs (well, maybe we should make that singular at this point) that continue to raise the cost of competing.

4) The increasingly materialistic culture in cheer (in which the vast majority of people in the sport participate, whether or not of their own volition), that has led us to feel that it is normal to get a new uniform every couple of years, bling everything out to the max, have multiple edits of music each season, crazy expensive practice wear, etc.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I've heard a lot of funny conspiracy theories regarding our industry, but this is the first I've heard of a 'mesh conspiracy theory' to make more money off of uniforms by allowing mesh. I was on the committee that agreed that mesh counted as 'covering the midriff'. And the only motivation in making that decision was the fact that it literally met the definition of 'covering the midriff. lol My salary isn't at all tied to uniform sales and I will stand by my original position that we needed to cover up our athletes and the decision wasn't even slightly motivated by uniform sales.

As far as developing our unified scoring system goes, It was myself and Jeremi Sanders that initially got together 3 years ago to begin merging scoring systems. I'm sure to the outside eye, it looks like it was part of some master, strategic plan. But the truth is neither one of us were ever brought in to merger conversations. We were genuinely sitting down, trying to find commonality in our scoring systems so that our customers could have a smoother season as they bounced between competition companies.

And I believe you. I really don't think it's everybody at Varsity that prioritizes profit over everything.

 

[Pebbles49]

@CharlotteASMom, I must agree with your statements, my daughter has only been in the sport for 4 years, but we already have been priced out of the sport. In her first 2 years the sport was extremely reasonable... I remembered her traveling with the team, with me doing limited out of state traveling with her. Suddenly, her 2nd year, I must traveled with the team, taking off from my job and paying the additional hotel, flight fees, etc... The cost to attend NCA in just 2 years
double and with STP, there is no way to mitigate the cost.
Additionally,
Why the sudden need to buy yearly designer individualized practice wear, buying yearly uniforms, specialized bows for every outfit and 2 or more sneakers, special warmup suits, etc....In retrospect, I started feeling like this sport has become more of a superficial event with judgements come from judging, which gym have best practice wear and uniform than the other gym...
My first 2 years, I spent about $50 at the most, on practice wear, which comprised of 2 tee shirts, 2 soffe shorts with matching ribbons, the athlete tied in their ponytail as a bow to practice.... I blame the parents and the gyms, who have become so superficial and it appears as an outsider, that it is superficial things that determines whom the best...jmo