All-Star Legitimate Nationals

[JerricaLynn]

It sounds like a gym near me, our "rivals," they've won 5 Grand Champion awards in a row at Nationals ... they have yet to compete against anyone though. :confused:

Am I the only one who's upset by how easily "National Champion" gets thrown around? Even the idea some suggested of each EP gets 1 nationals doesn't make too much sense, there should ONLY be one Nationals, we are only one Nation! What ever happened to just competing at a competition? Anyone can get a shirt that says National Champion now so that title doesn't even seem prestigious; why can't we be proud to wear a jacket that blatantly says "Cheersport Champion" or "XYZ Champion"? We should make an effort to rebuild the prestige of the term "National Champion"

 

[cheercurl]

This is all about education folks... there is room for all kinds of gyms. Barnyard National Champions. UCA Champs, NCA Champs, and US FINALS..."Mommy we won worlds, our jr 2 team is the best in the world!" It is up to the parent and eventually the athlete to decide what kind of experience they are looking for. Do they want to compete with the best of the best in some of the more prestigious competitions or are they satisfied winning Battle at the Capital? There is room for all kinds, which I guess is why this thread seems a little silly because it is all about perspective.

Ask a parent at World Cup what the most prestigious National they went to this this year and you are going to get a very different response then the gym we are currently at. Most of the parents at our gym don't even know who World Cup is and we ARE FROM NJ....does that put it into perspective for you? LOL

 

[alexamarysouza]

I do agree in thinking that you're technically not a national winning team when you compete against one or two other teams. I really think it only counts if there's at LEAST 5 or 6 other teams, and they're actually decent. If they're terrible and you win, that's not really that much of an accomplishment.

 

[AndrewSky]

One thing I'll say..I get really annoyed when teams say "we've been undefeated all season." Please, 5 out of your 6 competitions you were in your division, and the other one you went against Ratchet All Stars.

 

[addicted2cheer]

This is all about education folks... there is room for all kinds of gyms. Barnyard National Champions. UCA Champs, NCA Champs, and US FINALS..."Mommy we won worlds, our jr 2 team is the best in the world!" It is up to the parent and eventually the athlete to decide what kind of experience they are looking for. Do they want to compete with the best of the best in some of the more prestigious competitions or are they satisfied winning Battle at the Capital? There is room for all kinds, which I guess is why this thread seems a little silly because it is all about perspective.

Ask a parent at World Cup what the most prestigious National they went to this this year and you are going to get a very different response then the gym we are currently at. Most of the parents at our gym don't even know who World Cup is and we ARE FROM NJ....does that put it into perspective for you? LOL

I met up with friends with kids who cheer and had no idea that Worlds was only level 5 and asked me where it was held. My jaw dropped!

That being said.... I do think it is fine for teams not to get to the "big" competitions. I think as long as a team is competitive among the groups the are competing against it's a great thing and when you beat teams you see as worthy opponents ANY win is a big win and should be celebrated!

My gripes are for teams and parents that are mislead and truly are let to believe that the comps they are attending are the big ones. I was in a gym that would NOT take us to Dallas. Period. They simply stated that we are not ready for it. They were right and honesty paid off in my eyes. I respected that.

And also why can't just one each year be called nationals per competition company????? As one poster stated, I too have been in the position of having to explain why my child is a 3 time national champ in one season... by the time you explain it and you listen to what you are saying it really diminishes the legitimacy of the sport! Let the companies run all the competitions they want, just don't call them all nationals. National should be reserved for competitions that have representation from a majority of the Nation.

 

[rosebud]

It depends what the athlete is looking for, if they are just starting out and they choose a gym by their website it will work out fine for them. They are growing and learning and winning National Championships at smaller competitions which are fine for them but as they grow and need to be more challenged, they will see other teams that are out there and what they have to offer and will move on (if they want to) to a gym that is more successful at the larger competitions list NCA, UCA, Cheersport, Jamfest Supernationals, etc. Everyone needs to start somewhere and some might just be happy doing the smaller competitions and winning those Nationals titles.

 

[12stepCheermom]

It depends what the athlete is looking for, if they are just starting out and they choose a gym by their website it will work out fine for them. They are growing and learning and winning National Championships at smaller competitions which are fine for them but as they grow and need to be more challenged, they will see other teams that are out there and what they have to offer and will move on (if they want to) to a gym that is more successful at the larger competitions list NCA, UCA, Cheersport, Jamfest Supernationals, etc. Everyone needs to start somewhere and some might just be happy doing the smaller competitions and winning those Nationals titles.

I generally agree with all of this. It's how we started. We had no idea what the Allstar world was really about...never heard of UCA, NCA or CHEERSPORT. didn't even know about spirit of hope and it's literally in our backyard (were in a suburb of Charlotte). I don't even think we saw Charlotte Allstars except maybe once in three years. Didn't know about them either. That's how uneducated we were. And it was fine for the first two years or so. But our daughter caught the fire for the sport and quickly outgrew their capacity to train her.

The only caution I'd give is what happened to us....it may be good enough for just starting out, but in our case where we thought we were awesome, we also thought our coaching staff knew what they were doing, my daughter cheered there for three years....it took 18 months at our new gym to break and retrain bad habits in basic tumbling skills because the coaches (we learned later) had no idea what they were doing. Different tiers of gyms are just fine based on what you're looking for...but different tiers of coaching is not fine. Even the kids who want to stay local and aren't ready or willing for NCA etc, should have the right to well trained coaches. The ones we had there are the exact types of coaches these new rules are directed at curtailing.

 

[rosebud]

I generally agree with all of this. It's how we started. We had no idea what the Allstar world was really about...never heard of UCA, NCA or CHEERSPORT. didn't even know about spirit of hope and it's literally in our backyard (were in a suburb of Charlotte). I don't even think we saw Charlotte Allstars except maybe once in three years. Didn't know about them either. That's how uneducated we were. And it was fine for the first two years or so. But our daughter caught the fire for the sport and quickly outgrew their capacity to train her.

The only caution I'd give is what happened to us....it may be good enough for just starting out, but in our case where we thought we were awesome, we also thought our coaching staff knew what they were doing, my daughter cheered there for three years....it took 18 months at our new gym to break and retrain bad habits in basic tumbling skills because the coaches (we learned later) had no idea what they were doing. Different tiers of gyms are just fine based on what you're looking for...but different tiers of coaching is not fine. Even the kids who want to stay local and aren't ready or willing for NCA etc, should have the right to well trained coaches. The ones we had there are the exact types of coaches these new rules are directed at curtailing.

True!! unfortunately you don't find out about how trained your coaches are (or aren't) until you move to a different gym. :( I do agree with better training/certification for the coaches that's for sure!

 

[gofriars610]

I've said this in about 182309482 threads.

The Penn and Teller video on cheerleading. GO!

They specifically address this issue. It's all about money for Var$ity, JamFe$t, and Cheer$port.

 

[socratesofcheer]

I do agree in thinking that you're technically not a national winning team when you compete against one or two other teams. I really think it only counts if there's at LEAST 5 or 6 other teams, and they're actually decent. If they're terrible and you win, that's not really that much of an accomplishment.

It depends on who those one or two teams are. I would think WC counts their victory at NCA as a legitimate one, even thought they only competed against CEA and F5

 

[alexamarysouza]

It depends on who those one or two teams are. I would think WC counts their victory at NCA as a legitimate one, even thought they only competed against CEA and F5

ok, yeah I agree with that. What I'm really meaning is if you beat 2 susie teams and consider yourself 'nationally ranked', you've gone bonkers. ;)

 

[cupieqt]

ok, yeah I agree with that. What I'm really meaning is if you beat 2 susie teams and consider yourself 'nationally ranked', you've gone bonkers. ;)

Does it have to be well known teams? I'm just wondering if we beat really good teams that nobody outside of our state cares about if it still counts? I understand you probably mean teams that are just "the best of the worst" but what if they're really good?

 

[tucknduck]

ok, yeah I agree with that. What I'm really meaning is if you beat 2 susie teams and consider yourself 'nationally ranked', you've gone bonkers. ;)

Problem is, you don't have a control on who you compete when you get to these tournaments. You just go up against whoever's there and you control what you can which is the performance on the floor and the results will take care of itself.

Now making a national champion out of one or two teams in a division does kinda make the "National Championship" kinda fugazy but what are you gonna do? Maybe set a score you should hit to win? I assume some tournaments are doing this.

I think the biggest reason for such few teams in some divisions is there are too many divisions.

 

[alexamarysouza]

Does it have to be well known teams? I'm just wondering if we beat really good teams that nobody outside of our state cares about if it still counts? I understand you probably mean teams that are just "the best of the worst" but what if they're really good?

by no means do they have to be well known! My own gym in fact is basically nationally ranked, and we may have beaten many well known gyms AND many not well known gyms, but we are just a little small, NOT well know gym ourself! By susie teams Im really meaning exactly what you said 'best of the worst'. :)

 

[alexamarysouza]

Problem is, you don't have a control on who you compete when you get to these tournaments. You just go up against whoever's there and you control what you can which is the performance on the floor and the results will take care of itself.

Now making a national champion out of one or two teams in a division does kinda make the "National Championship" kinda fugazy but what are you gonna do? Maybe set a score you should hit to win? I assume some tournaments are doing this.

I think the biggest reason for such few teams in some divisions is there are too many divisions.

I realize you have no control over that. Im saying that if you win a 'national competition' against teams that aren't even any good, well known gyms or not, there's really not that much there for you to brag about. But even if you're going against the worst of the worst, you still want to hit perfectly!