High School Male Flyers

[Ashley]

I just read an article that a female kicker received a scholarship to play college football, so I'm not sure if this is accurate any longer.

I think that's different though. If they don't offer an equivalent female sport, and the female is good enough, they have to let her play in the male sport. That's Title IX stuff and isn't really comparable. You wouldn't have an NCAA sport with X boys and Y girls.

That would only be relevant if cheer were somehow a male sport without a female counterpart.

 

[AndyT_T]

I'm not missing your point, I know you weren't saying it should be an NCAA sport. But no NCAA sport is coed with roles based on gender, so you can't say "this wouldn't fly in an NCAA sport."

Oh okay gotcha, sorry I misunderstood lol

I was more saying that, in NCAA, if a football player did a touchdown dance or something like that they wouldn't be penalized for a dance being "flamboyant". I.e. If a QB made a TD and shimmied or twirly snapped he may be dragged on Twitter, but NCAA would be afraid to penalize him for his flamboyant motions because they wouldn't want to seem discriminatory. I'm not 100% I will look when I get home, but I believe that would fall into their discrimination policy.

In NCA/UCA, it's not uncommon for a team to get penalized on their image score for a boy doing something "flamboyant". If a guy landed his pass and did the point to the crowd thing they do in UCA or pounded his chest with one arm, something else I've frequently seen in UCA, their score isn't effected. But I personally know people who have gotten warnings from judges or lowered image score when the guys acted too gay on the mat.
Similarly, when USASF tried to institute policies that would allow them to do the same thing UCA/NCA do, using much of the same language, it created headlines on mainstream news for being discriminatory.

I will say though, this may be changing. I saw a boy on TVCC heap his pony and drop it low and they won, so I would assume it didn't affect their score. But I'm not sure if that means there was a different standard for them or that the policy has changed. But I would imagine enforcing a "traditional all American man" (whatever that means) image is still very much a thing at UCA

 

[AndyT_T]

Commenting to add, I am NOT saying dropping it low and thigh rubbing should be allowed in cheer at any level. I prefer a clean tight look personally and will always prefer a stingrays style routine to an ECE style routine.

My issue isn't that they enforce image standards, my issue is that they are saying to athletes "Girls can do this but boys can't because that's not how an all American man should act". We don't accept that in the workplace, in schools, or even in other sports so I honestly don't understand why we just casually accept it in collegiate cheerleading.

The okay for girls but not for boys (and visa versa) is the issue, not having choreography and image rules.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Commenting to add, I am NOT saying dropping it low and thigh rubbing should be allowed in cheer at any level. I prefer a clean tight look personally and will always prefer a stingrays style routine to an ECE style routine.

My issue isn't that they enforce image standards, my issue is that they are saying to athletes "Girls can do this but boys can't because that's not how an all American man should act". We don't accept that in the workplace, in schools, or even in other sports so I honestly don't understand why we just casually accept it in collegiate cheerleading.

The okay for girls but not for boys (and visa versa) is the issue, not having choreography and image rules.

LOL remember the drama that ensued over USASF trying to ban "exaggerated and theatrical movements"? As if there aren't bigger things to worry about.

 

[AndyT_T]

I had a boy that wanted to try out 2 years ago, could tumble, was talented, but he did a co-ed all star team. He had a heart to heart with me and said, he also wanted to play lacrosse and felt the guys on the team wouldn't respect him, but since he knew he had his eyes set on cheering in college, he was able to get co-ed stunting experience. I also think if he was told he was flying, he would have looked at me like I was out of my mind.

Fair enough.

I have a female athlete who is scared of heights and told me she wasn't comfortable flying.
Fair enough, I trained her to base.

No one is saying you should force an athlete to do something they're not comfortable doing. That's not the issue here. If I had a boy who I planned to make a flyer who told me he wasn't comfortable flying for whatever reason I would accept that and train him to base.
But there are boys who are small enough and flexible enough to fly who are comfortable with the idea of being a flyer.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I have a female athlete who is scared of heights and told me she wasn't comfortable flying.
Fair enough, I trained her to base.

No one is saying you should force an athlete to do something they're not comfortable doing. That's not the issue here. If I had a boy who I planned to make a flyer who told me he wasn't comfortable flying for whatever reason I would accept that and train him to base.
But there are boys who are small enough and flexible enough to fly who are comfortable with the idea of being a flyer.

All I am saying is that in some areas, while boys are interested in scholastic cheer, minus "trying to go up" they would be mortified if they were asked to fly, based on ANY criteria.

 

[Ashley]

Commenting to add, I am NOT saying dropping it low and thigh rubbing should be allowed in cheer at any level. I prefer a clean tight look personally and will always prefer a stingrays style routine to an ECE style routine.

My issue isn't that they enforce image standards, my issue is that they are saying to athletes "Girls can do this but boys can't because that's not how an all American man should act". We don't accept that in the workplace, in schools, or even in other sports so I honestly don't understand why we just casually accept it in collegiate cheerleading.

The okay for girls but not for boys (and visa versa) is the issue, not having choreography and image rules.

I think that's a fair argument. I will say that I don't agree with the guidelines USASF put in place and I don't think they should be policing how flamboyant boys are allowed to be. But I still don't think that's the same thing as a coach deciding they won't ever let a boy fly. I don't believe that telling them they have to base is the same as policing their behavior.

 

[ScottyB]

I was more saying that, in NCAA, if a football player did a touchdown dance or something like that they wouldn't be penalized for a dance being "flamboyant". I.e. If a QB made a TD and shimmied or twirly snapped he may be dragged on Twitter, but NCAA would be afraid to penalize him for his flamboyant motions because they wouldn't want to seem discriminatory. I'm not 100% I will look when I get home, but I believe that would fall into their discrimination policy.

Not arguing, we are aligning viewpoints the more we discuss.
Just wanted to point out an LOL.
All NCAA football players would receive a penalty for a celebration dance, whether flamboyant or super masculine because excessive celebrations are against the rules. They don't care what your dance moves are!
:deathdrop:

 

[Official OWECheer]

Not arguing, we are aligning viewpoints the more we discuss.
Just wanted to point out an LOL.
All NCAA football players would receive a penalty for a celebration dance, whether flamboyant or super masculine because excessive celebrations are against the rules. They don't care what your dance moves are!
:deathdrop:

Wouldn't it be something to see a death drop in celebration of a touchdown... or voguing. LOL.

 

[AndyT_T]

Not arguing, we are aligning viewpoints the more we discuss.
Just wanted to point out an LOL.
All NCAA football players would receive a penalty for a celebration dance, whether flamboyant or super masculine because excessive celebrations are against the rules. They don't care what your dance moves are!
:deathdrop:

Hahaha embarrassing
I'll admit the only time I ever watch football is when cheering or the Super Bowl lol is it a fine? I would hope I wouldn't miss the score changing because of a TD dance.

Are excessive celebration rules a thing for other NCAA sports?

Wouldn't it be something to see a death drop in celebration of a touchdown... or voguing. LOL.

Omg I would gag, I would die, I would be ressurected, I would live again. Can this please happen in my lifetime?

 

[AndyT_T]

I think that's a fair argument. I will say that I don't agree with the guidelines USASF put in place and I don't think they should be policing how flamboyant boys are allowed to be. But I still don't think that's the same thing as a coach deciding they won't ever let a boy fly. I don't believe that telling them they have to base is the same as policing their behavior.

You're right, it was a bit of a derailment lol it probably should be in a thread of its own not here :help:

 

[Twinklestars]

You're right, it was a bit of a derailment lol it probably should be in a thread of its own not here :help:

If a thread doesn't get derailed, is it really a valid thread?

 

[ScottyB]

Hahaha embarrassing
I'll admit the only time I ever watch football is when cheering or the Super Bowl lol is it a fine? I would hope I wouldn't miss the score changing because of a TD dance.

Are excessive celebration rules a thing for other NCAA sports?



Omg I would gag, I would die, I would be ressurected, I would live again. Can this please happen in my lifetime?

NCAA football is a penalty. Other NCAA sports I am not sure about, I know they push sportsmanship and stuff pretty hard so I think there is probs something. I think the NFL does penalties too, if caught in the moment. I think there have been some fines for big stuff that wasn't caught til it went viral on social media. I could be wrong though.

And no worries! I could tell what you meant in your example!

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

NCAA football is a penalty. Other NCAA sports I am not sure about, I know they push sportsmanship and stuff pretty hard so I think there is probs something. I think the NFL does penalties too, if caught in the moment. I think there have been some fines for big stuff that wasn't caught til it went viral on social media. I could be wrong though.

And no worries! I could tell what you meant in your example!

Anything that could be considered taunting an opponent in basketball is a technical foul. In baseball is probably a team warning for the first offense followed by ejection.

 

[AScheer]

How have I missed 11 pages worth of this thread!? That's tryout season for you!

To add my opinion, I think it depends on if we're talking allstar or school. I don't prefer guys flying, but in an allstar world it doesn't bother me as much.

My school however is strictly UCA style. A guy flying will never happen. I'm sure it won't be a popular statement, but a guy trying out for my team has zero chance at even making varsity. He could be the most amazing cheerleader in the room, but we are an all girl team. I'm not interested in trying to go co-ed because we have 1 guy interested, especially if that guy doesn't contribute in a traditional UCA way. There is no way we stand a chance of doing well in the coed division with 1 boy, especially if it's a boy who fits a flyer mold. Until the rule comes that 1 boy still equals all girl, there is zero chance of me taking a boy.