All-Star National Championships Are Won At Tryouts

[CharlotteASMom]

Loved reading this thread!

After reading all your input I've come to the conclusion that sandbagging/stacking will be common until the whole industry sees it as silly. Why do kids want to compete lower than their ability to get the win? Because we give praise to that.

As a soccer mom I can say that no kid would want to drop 2-3 levels to be on a winning team. They'd rather be on the highest that they are capable of even if it's a mediocre team. The only exception would be ECNL/Academy kids that can't afford the amount of travel these teams require and therefore request to be dropped. I've also seen a kid or two ask to go one team lower because of friends or that they work better with that group. But never 2-3 levels!

Last year a friend of my daughter was just starting soccer and asked her to play on an independent rec team with her. My daughter said no because she thought it wasn't right. Her reasoning was it wouldn't be fair because she'd obviously be far more skilled than everyone else. She even commented that it would actually hurt the other kids by leaning on her to make the plays instead of figuring it out themselves.

Many people hate the other sport comparisons to cheer but the value of a win or loss translates pretty well.


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[tumbleyoda]

@CharlotteASMom I am convinced that the industry will never see it as silly because too much money is made by it.

 

[cmghas3]

Interesting thread! We left a fairly large gym and took last season off. We had already had our minds made up that we were going to go to the "much" smaller gym. We watched the progression of the smaller gym and honestly I was truly amazed with the owners and coaches and their goals! I decided to have my middle cp tumble, open gym, privates, ect..instead of going straight on a team, which to a certain point I regret, but can't change.
Now with that being said tryouts came and cp made J2. I honestly don't pay attention to the skills of her team mates and we don't have open practices. But, cp in my opinion was placed perfectly and from what she has told me is that the majority of her team has level 2 skills. Is that stacking???
Our gym has doubled this season. I have the utmost respect and think that our new gym made some extremely great decisions. We were "unknown" to a certain extent last season and our level 5 Worlds team took 10th place! To some larger gyms that may not seem to be the best, but we were a gym with about 70? athletes! I don't want to be quoted on the number. Also we had 2 full paid bids to summit, which we also placed very well.
My point is that why would you not want your cp to be on a team that is "maxed" out on skill levels? My CP's skills are not perfected, but I assume that by comp time they will. I believe that the owners/coaches have built solid teams. I am not a "cheer expert" but I trust the placements are for the best of the CP's and the gym. They have to be doing something right if you practically double athletes in one season.
In my opinion why would you want a level 2 team that wasn't solid and able to max the score sheet out?


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[quitthedrama]

Interesting thread! We left a fairly large gym and took last season off. We had already had our minds made up that we were going to go to the "much" smaller gym. We watched the progression of the smaller gym and honestly I was truly amazed with the owners and coaches and their goals! I decided to have my middle cp tumble, open gym, privates, ect..instead of going straight on a team, which to a certain point I regret, but can't change.
Now with that being said tryouts came and cp made J2. I honestly don't pay attention to the skills of her team mates and we don't have open practices. But, cp in my opinion was placed perfectly and from what she has told me is that the majority of her team has level 2 skills. Is that stacking???
Our gym has doubled this season. I have the utmost respect and think that our new gym made some extremely great decisions. We were "unknown" to a certain extent last season and our level 5 Worlds team took 10th place! To some larger gyms that may not seem to be the best, but we were a gym with about 70? athletes! I don't want to be quoted on the number. Also we had 2 full paid bids to summit, which we also placed very well.
My point is that why would you not want your cp to be on a team that is "maxed" out on skill levels? My CP's skills are not perfected, but I assume that by comp time they will. I believe that the owners/coaches have built solid teams. I am not a "cheer expert" but I trust the placements are for the best of the CP's and the gym. They have to be doing something right if you practically double athletes in one season.
In my opinion why would you want a level 2 team that wasn't solid and able to max the score sheet out?


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I'm not sure anyone posted in this thread that level appropriate teams and team maxing out on skills are stacking. Based on what you are saying, the team was put together very appropriately - a level 2 team with the majority of the team having level 2 skills and your CP personally will be challenged to perfect her skills during the season. I see nothing wrong and everything right about that!

 

[SheCheers]

@cmghas3 I don't think anyone is saying they want teams formed without all the skills. I've seen teams that literally should have been competing 1-2 levels down because they had athletes competing unsafe skills or didn't have the skills at all. I've seen teams put together where majority had 1-2 level skills higher than they were placed. And then I've seen leveled appropriate teams where the majority of the kids have the skills for that level and are probably working on the skills for the next level. It's definitely not black or white. It's not that you have to choose sandbagging or unsafe, there is a LOT of in between.




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[cmghas3]

Although I'm not new to all star cheer, it's very different at our new gym. Also I "learned" that I need to pay a little more attention than I have in the past. Having 3 CP's at all different "stages" of cheer has kind of always just given me the attitude of "sign contract, give me schedule, pay bill, let me know of any issues, classes, ect..." I appreciate all the knowledge and feedback from all of you guys!


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[DropAndRun]

And Rays coaches are told you need to be better than the teams that sandbag. No whining or complaining, just be better.

This is such an important outlook that it should be repeated. I agree.. I tell my kids this ALL the time.. In order to be the best you have to compete with the best. Set the standard of perfection that everyone else strives to keep up with. If you start your year with a team full of kids who have mastered the skill set for the level, they should be able to hold their own.

My Droplet is on a Y3 team this year and we could very possibly run into the "stacked/sandbagged" CEA Glitter Penguins. My thoughts on that? Well.. I hope those CEA kids can bring maxed out stunting and tumbling with excellent technique to the mat because I bet Droplets team will be ready for battle. Teal doesn't scare me.

 

[King]

This is such an important outlook that it should be repeated. I agree.. I tell my kids this ALL the time.. In order to be the best you have to compete with the best. Set the standard of perfection that everyone else strives to keep up with. If you start your year with a team full of kids who have mastered the skill set for the level, they should be able to hold their own.

My Droplet is on a Y3 team this year and we could very possibly run into the "stacked/sandbagged" CEA Glitter Penguins. My thoughts on that? Well.. I hope those CEA kids can bring maxed out stunting and tumbling with excellent technique to the mat because I bet Droplets team will be ready for battle. Teal doesn't scare me.

I think you get it

 

[cmghas3]

This is such an important outlook that it should be repeated. I agree.. I tell my kids this ALL the time.. In order to be the best you have to compete with the best. Set the standard of perfection that everyone else strives to keep up with. If you start your year with a team full of kids who have mastered the skill set for the level, they should be able to hold their own.

My Droplet is on a Y3 team this year and we could very possibly run into the "stacked/sandbagged" CEA Glitter Penguins. My thoughts on that? Well.. I hope those CEA kids can bring maxed out stunting and tumbling with excellent technique to the mat because I bet Droplets team will be ready for battle. Teal doesn't scare me.

@DropAndRun...I'm not sure where your from? I love ur posts though as I am "drop and run" mom myself. Our old gym was about 13 minutes away and now depending on traffic, it takes about 45 mins. We don't have many gyms in our area, so drama can be bad! I have a hard time dealing with the "issues" my CP's dealt with. They actually didn't know until it was done and over. Sad that adults seem to go after the CP's instead of the parents.
But its so different going to a smaller gym and where the owners coach each team themselves, along with their staff. I never would bash our old gym. I think each owner or coach has their own different goals. What I will say is that at our new gym "Susie" wouldn't be getting her way here. I'm not sure if all the teammates have perfected all their skills of truly it they are maxed out. I'm taking the word of my cp, who also has only practiced 3-4 times with her team.
I understand "sandbagging" and have seen it. I just don't see anything wrong with when ur gym basically grows over night to be very careful and picky on how the coaches place the CP's. Of course we all want that "ring"! I think personally that it's changed from filling ur gym with banners and trophies! This season will give my cp the chance to perfect and gain skills, hopefully along with others! We don't have the drama. I wish your cp much luck thkbhuu


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[Helen uk uni cheer]

I really like this thread. In the uk is it quite hard to stack teams as not everyone has the skills but it is getting easier. I am a strong level 2 stunter but my tumbling is not great and not flexible so jumps are mediocre so I didnt make one team at all for next season in another area near to my university because they wanted as many people to have a backhandspring . I am 20 so back flexibility is an issue and a handspring wont happen for a while for me you just keep trying to find a team that suits you. I dont know a team that sandbags in the uk and it is hard to stack teams at the higher levels but in level 2 and 3 it is getting easier

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

This is such an important outlook that it should be repeated. I agree.. I tell my kids this ALL the time.. In order to be the best you have to compete with the best. Set the standard of perfection that everyone else strives to keep up with. If you start your year with a team full of kids who have mastered the skill set for the level, they should be able to hold their own.

My Droplet is on a Y3 team this year and we could very possibly run into the "stacked/sandbagged" CEA Glitter Penguins. My thoughts on that? Well.. I hope those CEA kids can bring maxed out stunting and tumbling with excellent technique to the mat because I bet Droplets team will be ready for battle. Teal doesn't scare me.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And more yes.

So such and such gym has Level 4 kids on Junior 2. Oh well. You can't change that.

All you can do is make sure that YOUR Junior 2 is solid all-around on Level 2 skills and bring it the best they know how.

 

[DropAndRun]

@DropAndRun...I'm not sure where your from? I love ur posts though as I am "drop and run" mom myself. Our old gym was about 13 minutes away and now depending on traffic, it takes about 45 mins.

Droplet cheers in IL. We have made the switch from a small gym to a multi location large gym this year and it's very different. Last year she was on a j2 that started the year with only 4 BHS. We had quite a few more by comp season, but struggled all year and were never able to be competitive. We love the gym and adore the head coach- she did so much for my Drop on and off the mat and we were lucky to have that time there when Drop was so young. She really grew to love the sport for what it was- not because she won every comp but because she loved the process. What she's getting now is a very different experience. I wouldn't trade or change either one. I'm grateful for every experience we have had and I cannot wait to see what a new year on a different kind of team will bring for her.

 

[cmghas3]

Droplet cheers in IL. We have made the switch from a small gym to a multi location large gym this year and it's very different. Last year she was on a j2 that started the year with only 4 BHS. We had quite a few more by comp season, but struggled all year and were never able to be competitive. We love the gym and adore the head coach- she did so much for my Drop on and off the mat and we were lucky to have that time there when Drop was so young. She really grew to love the sport for what it was- not because she won every comp but because she loved the process. What she's getting now is a very different experience. I wouldn't trade or change either one. I'm grateful for every experience we have had and I cannot wait to see what a new year on a different kind of team will bring for her.

@DropAndRun....hey your not too far from my area, Michigan!!! I'm sure that we will be at some of the same comps!
It's going to be a "fun" yr for me! We are so excited to be at our new facility and cp loves her team and coaches! So it looks as I will have 1 all star cp, 1 HS cp, and my 7 yr old cp will continue with her tumbling classes. Our oldest cp will be a senior in HS coming up and it's going to be a hectic season. HS comp cheer season is crazy and they have 1-2 comps per week. So our youngest cp will continue to tumble.
I wish Droplet a great season and hope to see you guys!


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[TealShades]

Interesting thread! We left a fairly large gym and took last season off. We had already had our minds made up that we were going to go to the "much" smaller gym. We watched the progression of the smaller gym and honestly I was truly amazed with the owners and coaches and their goals! I decided to have my middle cp tumble, open gym, privates, ect..instead of going straight on a team, which to a certain point I regret, but can't change.
Now with that being said tryouts came and cp made J2. I honestly don't pay attention to the skills of her team mates and we don't have open practices. But, cp in my opinion was placed perfectly and from what she has told me is that the majority of her team has level 2 skills. Is that stacking???
Our gym has doubled this season. I have the utmost respect and think that our new gym made some extremely great decisions. We were "unknown" to a certain extent last season and our level 5 Worlds team took 10th place! To some larger gyms that may not seem to be the best, but we were a gym with about 70? athletes! I don't want to be quoted on the number. Also we had 2 full paid bids to summit, which we also placed very well.
My point is that why would you not want your cp to be on a team that is "maxed" out on skill levels? My CP's skills are not perfected, but I assume that by comp time they will. I believe that the owners/coaches have built solid teams. I am not a "cheer expert" but I trust the placements are for the best of the CP's and the gym. They have to be doing something right if you practically double athletes in one season.
In my opinion why would you want a level 2 team that wasn't solid and able to max the score sheet out?


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First, congrats to your gyms 10th place finish. Second, yes from my understanding that is stacking. Also stacking could be having a team of solid level 3 skills compete down to level 2 the whole season. Do you think that a level 2 that is Stacked in level 2 can compete and win? This question is not directed at you or your CP's team. Just an example

 

[TealShades]

ok after reading this thread I understand staking more. Correct me if I'm wrong. Staking is having a team with 90-100% solid level skills lets say level 4. They can stay at that level and still be competitive. It's also stacking if same team drops down to level 3 from the beginning to end of season. But its sandbagging if said team only drops down to level 2 only once or middle of the season? If its the latter than I don't get it. I feel its the same thing just later in season. But if I'm reading it wrong and its only one comp than YES that is sandbagging IMO.