All-Star National Championships Are Won At Tryouts

[King]

Obviously no. But we are talking about gyms that were already open and established for some years, not brand new start ups. For example if I were opening a gym I would not open a cheer gym at all. Not in this environment.

I would say if a business wouldn't bother starting in an environment that is bad keeping one going, which it knows is bad, is just as difficult a situation. I feel for anyone trying to run an honest business and struggling, but the way things need to be run to be long term successful are uncaring about outside circumstances.

 

[cheer25mom]

I haven't read the entire thread, but my CP was just placed on a level 2 team I suspect will not be competitive and I think I know why it was done. It is the lowest level team at the gym this year outside of tiny, and I think it is a 2 simply to keep even more folks from heading to a rival gym about 30 miles away.
The rival gym has been very successful, and our gym is undergoing and ownership shift. We lost a fair number of athletes to them last year, and they don't want it happening again. Most of the kids on the team have some level 2 skills, but I just don't think we have enough to be successful. I get why they did it, but I don't think it is going to do any good long term. If we can swing the commute, I considering letting CP try out at the other gym. I would rather see her on a successful level 1 than a bad level 2. It is tough because we love the coaches at our current gym, but I just don't know if the new ownership is going to work out.


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[BlueCat]

I would say if a business wouldn't bother starting in an environment that is bad keeping one going, which it knows is bad, is just as difficult a situation. I feel for anyone trying to run an honest business and struggling, but the way things need to be run to be long term successful are uncaring about outside circumstances.

Not to sound depressing, but running a business is hard and most businesses fail. In fact, 80% of businesses fail within 18 months according to Bloomberg. I would guess that, if anything, cheer gyms probably have a higher success rate than most industries.

 

[King]

Not to sound depressing, but running a business is hard and most businesses fail. In fact, 80% of businesses fail within 18 months according to Bloomberg. I would guess that, if anything, cheer gyms probably have a higher success rate than most industries.

I don't think that is depressing. I actually think it is healthy. I think because of the nature of cheer, the speed at which people decide if a gym is good or not, and tactics people can employ to open their doors for at least a few years cheer gyms succeed a minimum of 3 years. It is at the end of that 3 years that people decide if the business venture just wasnt worth it.

 

[cheercurl]

I think stacking vs. sandbagging is in the eye of the beholder. Having a solid level 3 team compete level 2 all season is sandbagging. Having a team filled with every child having the proper skills for a level 2 team is not stacking...it's called being competitive. I kind of feel everyones version of stacking and sandbagging is different and that is where the disconnect is.

 

[King]

I think stacking vs. sandbagging is in the eye of the beholder. Having a solid level 3 team compete level 2 all season is sandbagging. Having a team filled with every child having the proper skills for a level 2 team is not stacking...it's called being competitive. I kind of feel everyones version of stacking and sandbagging is different and that is where the disconnect is.

Agreed. And as we progress what is considered stacking is getting much closer to what was sandbagging. So why not skip all that talk, sand bag, and win now?


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[KDCheerMom]

Agreed. And as we progress what is considered stacking is getting much closer to what was sandbagging. So why not skip all that talk, sand bag, and win now?


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what is your definition of sandbagging vs stacking vs competitive?

 

[Mamarazzi]

Agreed. And as we progress what is considered stacking is getting much closer to what was sandbagging. So why not skip all that talk, sand bag, and win now?


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Great idea, if every team Sandbag Allstars competes against also sandbags. Unfortunately, they can't, and until Proper Level Allstars knows which comps Sandbaggers will attend in the upcoming season, they can't even avoid the sand baggers.

 

[BlueCat]

Agreed. And as we progress what is considered stacking is getting much closer to what was sandbagging. So why not skip all that talk, sand bag, and win now?

Or skip to the part where everyone does it and it gives you no competitive advantage.

 

[BlueCat]

what is your definition of sandbagging vs stacking vs competitive?

Stacking/competitive = when you only place athletes on your teams that have fully mastered the skills of that level
Sandbagging = when someone else only places athletes on their teams that have fully mastered the skills of that level

 

[BBinNCsMom]

What if you have 60 athletes try out and 35 of them have solid level three tumbling skills. The other 25 have good level 3 skills but say no punch front (everything else). If you make those level 3 kids without a punch front a level 2 team would that be considered sandbagging?


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[cheerKT]

In my day (my last year in competition was 08) "sandbagging" to us meant a team dropping down a level to win at a competition. For example, at Cheersport. Cheersport was always the mecca of sandbagging. A local gym had a small senior 4 and attended Cheersport every season, where they competed level 3. Then continued their season back up in level 4. Teams would drop down a level at big competitions and clean up. The idea of a team "sandbagging" from tryouts never crossed my mind. You don't see this as much anymore, probably because it's more common to have teams stacked with people from the beginning who have a fully mastered those skills than it was then.

I know this didn't really add anything to the conversation, but it's interesting to see how this term has evolved.

 

[King]

what is your definition of sandbagging vs stacking vs competitive?

Honestly I don't have one. It isn't illegal and there is no way to police it as every gym has a different level of what is acceptable to put on a team. As @BlueCat said: everyone stack every team and no advantage is left. And I agree with that completely because they each team is competing safely and it gets highly competitive. It is where everyone is heading anyway.
.
The only thing I dont like, but ISN'T illegal, is teams that drop down for specific competitions. But as we have no way to police it there is nothing illegal about it.

 

[King]

Outside of social stigma, what is wrong with people stacking (or sandbagging) teams?

 

[cheercurl]

Outside of social stigma, what is wrong with people stacking (or sandbagging) teams?

Well I guess my whole point is: stacking a team with athletes that have mastered the skills of a level 2 is not the same as sandbagging which would be a level 3/4 team that competes level 2 to win. Sandbagging is mostly a "medium to large gym luxury"... It is much harder to do with a small gym who only has 3, 4, or 5 teams. I think if you have less than a 100 athletes you already have a conglomerate of teams with mixed abilities on it anyway. Small gyms won't be able to sandbag like a mega gym so once again mega gym comes out the champ in that scenario.

PS I guess anyone could sandbag a level 1 team but I know of small gyms that even that would difficult. #justsayin

So by my definition of sandbagging/stacking...My question to you is why would you want an entire team to compete down a level? Why would it be necessary to do to win if you had a team filled with athletes who had solid level skills?