All-Star National Championships Are Won At Tryouts

[quitthedrama]

That is probably a much better definition. Sandbagging is competing one level for a portion of the season and dropping down for certain competitions.

Stacking is choosing kids for a team at the very beginning of the season.

Would you consider a team that competes level 2 for the season but at tryouts has 95% level 3 skills across the board and approximately 20% level 5 skills sandbagging, stacking, or neither?

 

[Cheer Dad]

Would you consider a team that competes level 2 for the season but at tryouts has 95% level 3 skills across the board and approximately 20% level 5 skills sandbagging, stacking, or neither?

Sandbagging because you are not allowing those athletes to reach their potential.


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[King]

Sandbagging because you are not allowing those athletes to reach their potential.


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Just curious, what should they be?

Would you consider a team that competes level 2 for the season but at tryouts has 95% level 3 skills across the board and approximately 20% level 5 skills sandbagging, stacking, or neither?

If you choose to be that level then stacking.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Just curious, what should they be?



If you choose to be that level then stacking.

Based on the into of 95% being L3 with some L5 mixed in I would say L3. Change % and my answer will change.


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[Cheer Dad]

@King maybe already answered but in your opinion when is a team sandbagging?


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[Mama Of 3 CP's]

Would you consider a team that competes level 2 for the season but at tryouts has 95% level 3 skills across the board and approximately 20% level 5 skills sandbagging, stacking, or neither?

I'd consider it a waste of money! I would never let my CP's compete on that level 2. That's sandbagging and I can't image any of my CP's enjoying that season even if they won everything. BORING!

If they have it 95% level 3, they should be a 3 and would be "stacked". They would get the other 5% in the summer and have the season to get their level 4 skills. I think the 20% with level 5 skills are irrelevant. I'm assuming they are on that team because there isn't any other team for them at the gym or they are crossovers to round out the team. All they can "show off" are tucks so there isn't a big advantage gained by having them because almost all of the other athletes have tucks as well.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I can't think of a sport where coaches say, "let's put together a mediocre team and hope they progress to the point we need them by playoffs." I actually think cheer has done a great job to make it as fair as possible for the small gym, as well as, the large gym. The issue I see in the gym from a large percentage of parents is they can't look beyond their child's individual skills to see the team or their competition. How often do we hear someone say, "If my child doesn't make team X, I'm not paying for another season?" or "I'm taking their phone until they throw their ____ so they'll be on team X." Yet, everyone can admit on the outside, the 6' back spot on an all girl lvl 3 team who doesn't tumble may be more valuable to a coach, than a 4'6" non-flying child with lvl 3 tumbling.

This I agree with. Just because Suzie Q has all of her tumbling skills, stunts/tosses/pyramids are included and I believe well rounded gyms no matter a mega gym, an average size gym, or a small gym should be able to manage their athletes on where they would be placed best for the team. And I know it's been said but just b/c Suzie Q is an exceptional Level x tumbler, if she is struggling in stunting in her position, maybe she should level down, learn a new role, work on her technique and be in a better position for the future year. Or vice versa, she is only performing 2 out of 4 level appropriate tumbling skills, and they need work, but she is an exceptional base who actually stunts a level higher, middle ground may be best for her and her team.

No one in their right mind is going to form a team based off of 1 thing and then try to be highly competitive. You want a level 3, have 20 kids and only 6 have running tucks and total 12 have handsprings, and you are not stunting majority, only 3 groups, you have zero right to complain about sandbagging, stacking, etc. Instead you need to retain kids, maybe drop a level, work on the skills, have have a different outlook on your end result.

 

[King]

@King maybe already answered but in your opinion when is a team sandbagging?


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Sandbagging is where you start a level up and drop down for specific competitions.

Sandbagging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[King]

I'd consider it a waste of money! I would never let my CP's compete on that level 2. That's sandbagging and I can't image any of my CP's enjoying that season even if they won everything. BORING!

If they have it 95% level 3, they should be a 3 and would be "stacked". They would get the other 5% in the summer and have the season to get their level 4 skills. I think the 20% with level 5 skills are irrelevant. I'm assuming they are on that team because there isn't any other team for them at the gym or they are crossovers to round out the team. All they can "show off" are tucks so there isn't a big advantage gained by having them because almost all of the other athletes have tucks as well.

If CPs team competed against other teams that all did this and her team did not and she would have no chance of winning or even being competitive would you consider that a waste?

 

[Keep_Believing]

I'd consider it a waste of money! I would never let my CP's compete on that level 2. That's sandbagging and I can't image any of my CP's enjoying that season even if they won everything. BORING!

If they have it 95% level 3, they should be a 3 and would be "stacked". They would get the other 5% in the summer and have the season to get their level 4 skills. I think the 20% with level 5 skills are irrelevant. I'm assuming they are on that team because there isn't any other team for them at the gym or they are crossovers to round out the team. All they can "show off" are tucks so there isn't a big advantage gained by having them because almost all of the other athletes have tucks as well.

With the 75% tumbling = 100% tumbling rule, they would already be maxed out in the tumbling area.

 

[King]

With the 75% tumbling = 100% tumbling rule, they would already be maxed out in the tumbling area.

75% means they are in category, they aren't maxing out.

Remember scoring is objective to get you in the rubric, subjective against your peers within that rubric category. 100% will outscore 75% if used correctly.

 

[Keep_Believing]

75% means they are in category, they aren't maxing out.

Remember scoring is objective to get you in the rubric, subjective against your peers within that rubric category. 100% will outscore 75% if used correctly.

Thank you for that info! I have been asking & asking that question.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Sandbagging is where you start a level up and drop down for specific competitions.

Sandbagging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But teams sandbag all year long. IMO a stacked team is one that has all it's best L3 athletes (might be borderline L4) and they compete at L3. Again, just my opinion but a team that competes down a level for just 1 comp or the entire season is sandbagging.


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[quitthedrama]

Sandbagging is where you start a level up and drop down for specific competitions.

Sandbagging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I didn't see that definition anywhere in the link you referenced, but I did see my example could very well be sandbagging per the definition you referenced. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder, and since are no rules regarding what level athletes can compete, it is really just a matter of each individual's personal opinion and each gym's philosophy.

 

[King]

But teams sandbag all year long. IMO a stacked team is one that has all it's best L3 athletes (might be borderline L4) and they compete at L3. Again, just my opinion but a team that competes down a level for just 1 comp or the entire season is sandbagging.


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The thing is there is a limit to the skills you can perform. Let's use 3 teams that are each masterful at a separate level: 3, 4, and 5.

The level 3 team has extremely solid and mastered level 3 skills and almost teeter on level 4. The level 4 team is same for level 4 and are almost level 5. The level 5 team is a Worlds contender. They ALL compete in level 2. Who wins?