All-Star Progressions In Stunting Vs Tumbling

[mollymags]

To do it well or just do it?

I think stunting is so much easier to do. I don't think it's unrealistic to go into a three day stunt camp expecting to walk out knowing how to physically do the stunt... But I wouldn't expect to walk out of that camp with the ability to execute it perfectly. That takes time, though not as much as tumbling. With stunting, you can mix and match members of the team until you have groups that have the right mix of physical strength and experience to make a stunt work. You can put the weaker kids into groups with others that will pick up the slack while they learn or build the strength to carry their own weight in the group. You don't get that with tumbling. I think there's more room for trial and error in stunting as well... Clearly you can't just throw a group head first into something without spotting the group a few times, but once you know that there's almost no chance of it going catastrophically wrong you can let that group work on the stunt, bobble, fall to cradle, make mistakes until they learn what works because there's 2-3 people on the bottom of that stunt to save the day. With tumbling, you need a spot for your own safety up to a certain point... There's no one attached to you to cushion your fall. Maybe the fact that you can work on stunting without a coach holding your hand throughout the learning process is part of what makes it easier- simply because I'm sure it's easier to be confident and push through if you think your group is doing it all by yourselves.


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[Keep_Believing]

I have know gymnast with zero cheer experience who started on a high level as a side base. They came in with the tumbling and strength. With the help of a strong experienced stunt group they seem to do fine basing.

 

[vannahlexis]

One of my good friends has very pretty level 5 tumbling skills- all of which came easy to her. Getting to fly level 5 took her lots of time and effort - compared to her tumbling.

I've been cheering since 2009 and have a back handspring. I will never get anything past that. However, put me in to base/back a stunt and I will probably hit, with proper technique.

Totally think it depends on the person!

 

[cheer25mom]

My CP started in this sport at 7 with zero stunting and a "sort of" cartwheel. She has consistently done tumbling classes and privates. Getting her to a BHS took 3 years. She could base level 2 stunts within a few months and progressed quickly from there with stunting skills. Some of the girls that started with her at a similar age are now working layouts, but struggle with stunting anything beyond level 2. I really think a lot depends on the kid, their strengths and weaknesses, and what they enjoy.


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[King]

How many skills can successfully be learned in 4 hours to take home and practice later?

 

[Keep_Believing]

My CP learned a rewind in one of those 4 hour college stunt clinics. With that said she is only 11 and tiny for her age. She is on a level 4 all girl senior team. So, she has not worked on that skill since the clinic. I am not sure if the skill was easy for her because they were amazing awesome beast stunters and she is a tiny 11 year old, hence in reality they did most of the work..........

 

[gofriars610]

From personal experience? I watched an ex-gymnast with zero cheer experience learn how to main a prep, extension, and liberty in roughly 30 mins.

 

[King]

From personal experience? I watched an ex-gymnast with zero cheer experience learn how to main a prep, extension, and liberty in roughly 30 mins.

Interesting. If it was 3 gymnasts basing do you think it would have gone as fast?

 

[CheerBank]

Cp had a former coach who used to say she could teach a monkey to stunt. Tumbling on the other hand she said you either had a natural inclination for or you did not, and that was why it was much harder to teach and to progress in.

 

[cheernerd5678]

I find this discussion interesting. My CP is new to cheer this year - because of her flexibility and balance/contol they are training her as a flyer and have her on lower level teams than her tumbling skills - the reason given to me as to why she's on teams below her tumbling level is that it wouldn't be safe for her to fly at the same level as her tumbling this soon. It makes sense, and I'm glad she's learning to fly safely, but I think their theory goes against what I read on this site a lot - it seems like a quick progression from beginniner to advanced stunting is just expected, and that kids are placed by tumbling ability first, age second and stunting last. I think some have said it is different for flyers than it is bases or spots though (lol - it seems to me though that the bases do more of the work though, so not sure why exactly).

Bases do the same thing a lot of the time. For a base, a lib cradle, lib full down and a lib double down are the same (as long as they're popping). For a flyer, it's very different and from what I've read here, when flyers are rushed through twisting they can tend to block and become scared. I think that's why flyers are likely to be put on a lower team than their tumbling - they need time to get comfortable, bc what they're doing is scary. As a base, as long as they're making corrections and aren't afraid of the stunt and stepping out, it's pretty easy to learn a new stunt - you're not going to "block" on catching a full down if you can catch a straight cradle.

 

[vannahlexis]

How many skills can successfully be learned in 4 hours to take home and practice later?

With a brand new/inexperienced stunt group or with seasoned cheerleaders?

 

[NJ Coach]

I think "easy" is relative to position while stunting. Correct technique, form and application for a FLYER can take just as long as a tumbler. Yes, there are some that are naturally gifted, but that's with anything. I think it's potentially easier to teach a base, but it's all relative. Can I teach any base/back BASIC level stunting skills in a practice, absolutely. Can I teach them elite level skills in a practice..well, maybe portions of it, and I wouldn't expect them to hit it that night.

I believe most think progression through stunting is faster because it is a unit. It will only take 1 to get it wrong, but if they can all work together, they can make it work. The elites my teams are working on now will be hitting by competition season (hopefully). They were taught in the beginning of the summer. 5-6 months of practice to get it to hit. Is that faster than tumbling? Depends on the kid.

 

[King]

With a brand new/inexperienced stunt group or with seasoned cheerleaders?

Both? And then the question comes what is the purpose of camp? Is it to teach the brand new people how to stunt? If so and they are really brand new how far can they go legit in a few hours?

If they are experienced how far can they go in a couple hours? And if you don't know how to teach the skill as a coach that the camp is teaching them when they leave how will they know how to continue to get better at it?

 

[Keep_Believing]

@King As a College Cheer Coach have you ever added team members who were former high level gymnast with zero cheer experience? If so, were they able to keep up with the level of stunt difficulty?

 

[omgitssydthekid]

I had only based/back spotted basic stunts before and I learned how to base/backspot a full up, tick up, high to high tick tock, and double up in just a couple tries. Some of them hit on the first try. But I remember with flying, it typically took longer for me to hit it for the first time.