All-Star Purpose Of Safety Certification For Coaches

[CHillPR]

The underlying issue is in cheer leading you have coaches that are teaching skills that are known to not be legal at any level We have a unique situation in cheer, if a team does 10 comps a year that is a lot. But at the most counts for 20 days or about 20 hours. Yet a team will practice a minimum of 2 days a week for a minimum of 2 hrs a practice 208 hrs a year. Not including clinics, camps, and extra practices Clearly more time spent in practice. The reason more injuries are received in practice.

If you want to limit innovation based on the current Cheer Rules & Regulations...then you're in for a boring sport. Rules get changed every year, and sometimes not for the better. When I cheered 10 years ago there were less concussions, we practiced 3days/week June-March, and the rules were a bit more liberal....

It comes with coaching. If the coach knows the rules and is willing to bend them to try new things and push their kids to the next level, is there anything wrong with that? We wouldn't have tick tocks, inversions, and awesome transitions without someone pushing the bounds.

I do agree with you on the violation deductions though...if a program/team receives several violation warnings at more than one competition, it should be noted, and they should be fined.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I think I know what video your talking about; but I'm pretty sure they went as level 5, and the judges were confused what level they were competing in.

There hasn't been a Mini level 5 division in a few years. I'm pretty sure this has been discussed on the board before... @Fameous MOM , can you clarify for us?

 

[SharkDad]

If I were the lady in charge (but I'm not) here's how I would do it:
During June/July your team pays a USASF certifier to come out an evaluate your team. You show the stunting and tumbling that you team has mastered (hits 9 times out of 10) and the certifier signs off on that. So if you are mastering Level 3 tumbling and level 4 stunts, you are certified as a Level 3 team for that season. This means that at competitions your team should be performing Level 3 only skills.
There would be also be a practice certification signed off by the evaluator. This would be determined by your percentage of proficiency on the skills and tumbling for that level. For example, if your team is evaluated as hitting Level 3 stunts 60-80% of the time, you can compete Level 3, but can still only practice Level 3 skills. This is to encourage the team to work towards perfecting their technique and increasing strength. If your team is evaluated as hitting Level 3 stunts 80-100% of the time, the evaluator will sign off for competition at Level 3, but practicing toward Level 4 stunts.
This would allow teams to safely progress through the levels, without worrying about teams trying out skills that are too hard for them, or trying skills before they are ready. This would also increase safety for everyone involved, and would protect the coaches from negligence charges....if they were following the guidelines for the certified practice or competition level (and are providing a safe environment in regards to matting, lighting etc) then they have done everything within their power to provide a safe environment and it was simply an accident that Susie got hurt (inherent risk).

I hope it's not annoying, but I'll comment on a few different posts separately so they can be responded to if need be.

@MissBee I think your post speak to the heart of what everyone wants, but won't happen for a while under current leadership in the sport. Athletes, coaches, and parents (i.e. the costomers) all want the governing body to create and enforce the rules. The problem is that the sport as a whole will not support the governing body to make it happen. The USASF won't have the infrastructure or staff to enforce all the rules if athletes and gyms do not become members. Membership may not be the only means to provide the budget necessary, but it's a start in the right direction. I believe that's one of the major reasons that the main enforcers of rules right now (at their own leisure) are the EPs.

 

[SharkDad]

I know that for AACCA/NFHS, if a coach is certified and the team is doing skills appropriate for their level on the appropriate surface, then the coach is covered by their $1M insurance coverage. However, if a coach is certified and has the team doing skills outside of their level (i.e.; basket tosses for MS, or 3 high pyramids for HS) then the AACCA will not back that coach in the event of a lawsuit.

As parents and athletes in the sport, we have to understand a MAJOR flaw with this assumption. There is a "hold harmless" form that most people sign when they participate in an activity that is potentially dangerous. The system is set up right now to allow safety deficiencies and leadership in the sport is allowing it to happen.

I have never read or heard of a time that AACCA or NFHS did not support the coach in an injury trial, even if the coach was clearly being negligent (ie. coaching skills they were clearly not qualified to teach). I have also never read or heard of a case where the athlete won the judgement, due in part because of that hold harmless clause. FInally, I have never read or heard of a time when the liability insurance paid to the athlete.

I have read a lot on this subject. If anyone knows of a case to either example I have provided, please let me know. I would be delighted to not be able to make those statements anymore.

 

[SharkDad]

Jomo Thompson, head coach at the University of Kentucky, isn't credentialed to Level 6. Would you let him teach them to your kid(s)?

If he is teaching Level 6 skills, then I would definitely prefer he was properly certified. His leadership by example would go a long way to making the certification system work.

 

[MissBee]

As parents and athletes in the sport, we have to understand a MAJOR flaw with this assumption. There is a "hold harmless" form that most people sign when they participate in an activity that is potentially dangerous. The system is set up right now to allow safety deficiencies and leadership in the sport is allowing it to happen.

I have never read or heard of a time that AACCA or NFHS did not support the coach in an injury trial, even if the coach was clearly being negligent (ie. coaching skills they were clearly not qualified to teach). I have also never read or heard of a case where the athlete won the judgement, due in part because of that hold harmless clause. FInally, I have never read or heard of a time when the liability insurance paid to the athlete.

I have read a lot on this subject. If anyone knows of a case to either example I have provided, please let me know. I would be delighted to not be able to make those statements anymore.

I don't know of it either. I should have said "in theory"!

 

[redsmom]

I agree. I think this topic is getting a little bit blown out of proportion.

My view on this is that the rules are in place to prevent teams on the lower end of levels from pushing too far to keep up with more advanced teams in their division, and from doing skills that are beyond their skill levels. If a coach is qualified, they should be able to judge what their athletes are comfortable with doing.

Also for people that are freaking out about rewinds and stuff like that, think back to cheerleading about 10 years ago before the strict rules were in place. I distinctly remember Americheer nationals in 2002 when Twinkle teams (youth level) were throwing back tuck and full baskets. So this is super tame compared to that.

My CPs jr prep team (today's equivalent of youth) threw a back tuck basket in 2003 at Americheer Nationals, she was 10. Her teammates ranged in age between 8 and 11. It was our first year in all star and I was not very educated on the sport. When I think about it now a few 10 and 11 years responsible for catching an 8 year old in that kind of skill... yikes! So yeah we have come a long way baby ;)

 

[CGAcheer]

That is the problem though. A gym is now responsible for the validity of an athlete. The athletes should be responsible for the information solely. If they have to go through the hassle of uploading a birth certificate and paying why not just have them do it all?

The parents can do the whole thing if they do the pay membership, but for the free one the gym has to do it. If they had all this ready to go at tryout time, when parents are still paying attention and filling out everything you need and reading emails, I could have had it as part of the tryout process. And if that then set it up to where I just had to arrange my kids onto teams and then put in my schedule and then was done with all the registering and paper work that's currently involved in registering for a competition, it would be a fantastic program that I would be more than happy to support

 

[yojaehs]

I'm still confused as to why the USASF doesn't have the "money" to do at least something? They have grown tremendously and costs are going down. I think they aren't taking more strict actions because they are nervous of competitors, jmo.

 

[coach12]

My CPs jr prep team (today's equivalent of youth) threw a back tuck basket in 2003 at Americheer Nationals, she was 10. Her teammates ranged in age between 8 and 11. It was our first year in all star and I was not very educated on the sport. When I think about it now a few 10 and 11 years responsible for catching an 8 year old in that kind of skill... yikes! So yeah we have come a long way baby ;)

i think i was at that national & one of our teams also did back tuck baskets!! soo crazy! i forgot about it til you mentioned this!

 

[Fameous MOM]

There hasn't been a Mini level 5 division in a few years. I'm pretty sure this has been discussed on the board before... @Fameous MOM , can you clarify for us?

We were in the mini 2 division and since we had no comp the kids were allowed to throw whatever tumbling they could do safely. We still won the division but had MAJOR deductions lol. The kids had fun.

 

[wcdad]

I hope it's not annoying, but I'll comment on a few different posts separately so they can be responded to if need be.

@MissBee I think your post speak to the heart of what everyone wants, but won't happen for a while under current leadership in the sport. Athletes, coaches, and parents (i.e. the costomers) all want the governing body to create and enforce the rules. The problem is that the sport as a whole will not support the governing body to make it happen. The USASF won't have the infrastructure or staff to enforce all the rules if athletes and gyms do not become members. Membership may not be the only means to provide the budget necessary, but it's a start in the right direction. I believe that's one of the major reasons that the main enforcers of rules right now (at their own leisure) are the EPs.

This is the issue in a nut shell. The USASF is powerless. Great idea in theory.

 

[Deleted member 15]

If he is teaching Level 6 skills, then I would definitely prefer he was properly certified. His leadership by example would go a long way to making the certification system work.

I'd rather him have the knowledge than the certification.

 

[BubbleToes]

These certifications....whats the "passing score" for them. Do you have to get a 60%...70%...etc? Whats the failing grade to not get certified?

 

[Ceacoach]

“Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.” – Think Different, narrated by Steve Jobs

I don't disagree with many of the posts on this thread. Safety has to be paramount.

But..... Here's to the coaches who push the boundaries of creativity who don't ask and what we can't do but instead ask why can't we. I think it does a GRAVE injustice to our sport and its coaches to limit the abilities of our top level athletes. In such disciplines as diving, gymnastics, acrobatics there is no upper limit of skill, and the bar is continuously raised. It speaks to the masses that we do not have faith in our coaches. I say cheer coaches at this level are every bit as highly trained and capable of creating skills and maneuvers in a safe way that push the limits of creativity and challenge our athletes. To say that acro coaches have this ability and we do not is a mystery to me. I also support the argument for safety as an absolute so I know there is a balance. I do hope with time there will be a select group of teams who are trusted enough to compete what they actually can compete at the highest levels.

As for our showcase and exhibition routines, we know we are pushing the envelope and sometimes there are ways to make skills "legal" that make other parts more dangerous. Such as removing a back spot from an elevator to become the unnecessary third catcher. I had a trusted friend present to review all of the legalities in our routines...we always have several and this year we had far less than usual...he was pleased. This however has been a very intriguing thread and gets to the heart of the matter. I support the USASF and I hope I have helped make it more approachable for the next generation of coaches and athletes. The structure and government are necessary TO AN EXTENT. It all comes down to whether you are democratic or republican in a way..I'm all the way republican.

My final two points:
1) Not sure why there is argument for Jomo and his credentialing at Level 6 when that test doesn't exist yet?
2) @wcdad...if I remember correctly Shooting Stars received a legality penalty AT Worlds in 2010...so I think I miss the entire context of your argument. It is quite possible to be a leader as the awesome coaches from WC no doubt are and just miss interpreting a rule.